JOURNAL of the PROCEEDINGS and DEBATES in the POLITICAL CLUB, 1 fhall now begin to give you an Ac- The Subftance of this Addrefs being, as Mr. Prefident, SIR, T B C E continued from Page 360. HE practice of complimenting the minifters, by way of an address to our fovereign, at the beginning of every D feffion, has obtained for fo many years, that I despair of fuccefs in any oppofition I can make to the addrefs now propofed. I do not therefore rife up to offer any amendment, but to declare in the most open manner my being difatisfied with the greatest part of the noble lord's motion, which I think a great deal too long and too particular. I fhould be as ready as any gentleman in this houfe to join in returning his majefty our unfeigned thanks for his moft gracous fpeech from the throne, and in congratulating him upon his fafe and happy return to these kingdoms; but I cannot give my affent to the inferting of any words in our addrefs, which may imply the most diftant approbation of the treaty of G September, 1749. F peace that has been concluded, becaufe neither I, nor any gentleman in this house, can as yet have any parliamentary knowledge of that treaty, and because, from all the knowledge I have of it, I think it the worst of all the bad treaties England ever made. The conclufion of it may therefore have been neceffary, but I fhall never agree to call it happy; and from all the lights moft gentlemen in this houfe can' have, I am fure, they cannot fay, that this nation was at that time under any fort of neceffity to conclude a peace. I fhall admit, Sir, that our allies the Dutch had been, by the pufillanimous conduct of their former government, brought into some danger; but their government was then chan ged, and was lodged in fuch hands as would have exerted the whole ftrength of that powerful republick, in the moft vigorous and effectual manner. Tho' their ftrong town of Maeftricht had been taken, which would have required fome weeks, they had many other well fortified frontier places, which the enemy must have taken before they could make an impreffion upon any vital part of that republick; and before half of them could have been taken, the Ruffian troops could have arrived, which would have made our army at least equal to the French, and furnished the royal commander with an opportunity he never had before, of fighting the enemy upon equal terms, in which cafe he might probably have obtained as compleat a victory over the French, as he had before obtained over the rebels at the battle of Culloden; for I muft obferve, the more fortified towns the French had befieged and taken, the more they would have weakened their Есе army, army, the farther they would have been removed from any fafe retreat, and confequently their defeat would have been not only the more probable, but the more fatal. The danger therefore, Sir, which the Dutch were expofed to, could A not lay us under any neceffity of concluding an immediate peace. It might have been a reafon for our not infifting upon fuch honourable terms, or fuch a definitive treaty, as we might otherwife have done; but will any one fay, that the terms B were honourable, when we not only obliged ourselves to deliver up the only conquest we had made during the war, but gave hoftages for the performance of that obligation? Can we call a treaty definitive, when no one of thofe points are fo much as C mentioned, which gave rise to the war between us and Spain? Can we fay that all our allies have concurred without referve, when it is fo notorious, that both the queen of Hungary and king Sardinia, our principal allies in the war, were forced to D concur, because they faw us refolved to defert them if they did not? Can we admire the wifdom of our minifters in reconciling and adjufting fo many jarring interefts, when no fuch interefts have been any other way reconciled, than by compelling our allies to give up every thing the French or their allies could ask? Sir, when I confider these things, I am aftonished how the noble lord could think of offering fuch a paragraph as a part of our addrefs upon this occafion. If we agree to it, we fhall become the fcoff of all the courts abroad, and of all men of fenfe at home, who have any knowledge of foreign affairs. E F Then, Sir, with regard to the next paragraph propofed, how can G we pretend to fay, that the minifters have taken the first opportunity to reduce the publick expences, or that it has been done with unusual difpatch, when we know nothing of what publick expences have been reduced, or at what time they were reduced? We may perhaps have heard fomething of this from our publick news papers, or from the tittle-tattle of our under minifters, which is a worse authority; but neither of these, furely, can be a proper authority whereon to found an addrefs of parliament; and even from these we cannot fay, that those reductions, if any, have been made with unufual difpatch, for, I believe, greater reductions were made, and made with as much dispatch, at the end both of K. William's and queen Anne's war. Befides, I muft obferve, that as to our foreign fubfidies, which are of all others the moft grievous expence to this nation, moft of them are of fuch a nature, that they neither have been nor can be reduced for a year or two to come, which ought to have been an argument for continuing the war a year or two longer, if we had the least prospect of better fuccefs; and confequently is an argument for our not being fo ready to extol the happy conclufion of the peace. As to the other part of this paragraph, Sir, by which we are to applaud the wifdom of our minifters in recommending to us ceconomy, I can fee no foundation for it in the fpeech, which is always in this houfe fuppofed to be the speech of the minifters; for in no part of that speech can I find that they have recommended any fuch thing to us: Indeed, it would have been ridiculous if they had: It is our bufinefs to grant, it is their business and duty to manage what we grant, with œconomy. Our being cautious ard fparing in our grants, may in fome fenfe be called economy, and it is a fort of œconomy, which I wish we would practife more than we have done of late years; but it is a fort of economy that never was, nor, I believe, ever will be recommended to parliament by minifters, and by the prefent as little as by any of their predeceffors. What B C What our ministers mean, Sir, by recommending to us the improvement of the revenue, is fomething beyond my comprehenfion. I hope, they do not mean to defire us to impose any new taxes upon the people, or to increafe any of the old, or to A pafs any more fevere and dangerous laws for raifing our taxes than thofe we have now fubfifting; and yet one of these they muft certainly mean, or they mean nothing, because these are the only methods for improving the revenue, in which the parliament can have any neceffary concern. There is, indeed, another method which the minifters have power to take without our concurrence, and by which the net produce of all our taxes might be very much increased: I mean that of reducing the number of officers employed in collecting the revenue, and diminishing the falaries of the reft. This, I fay, is what the minifters may do without our concurrence, and what ought to be done; for I may venture to fay in general, that there is no country in D the world, where there is fo little to do, and fo much to be got by ferving the publick. It is this that makes all people fo fond of getting into publick office; and it is this that gives force to corruption, and fpreads it fo univerfally among the people. E Therefore, if we are refolved to preferve our independency and our feats in this house, for, I hope, there are none within thefe walls, that came here by corruption, we ought to think of this method for improving the publick revenue; and if we find that our minifters do not foon go about it of themfelves, we ought, I hope, fome future feffion even of this parliament will fet on foot an inquiry into the bufinefs as well as falaries of all publick officers, and compel our minifters by our authority to do what they may and ought to do without our concurrence; for what fignifies our loading the people with taxes, when one half of the produce is eat up by the great number of officers, and the great falaries allow'd by our ministers to thofe they employ in raifing and collecting fuch taxes? but why fhould I fay employ, when it is fo well known that we have many officers with great falaries and perquifites, who have no employment, because they get fome low fellow to do the whole duty of the office for one tenth or one twentieth part of the falary and perquifites? Then, Sir, as to what the noble lord propofes with regard to the bravery of our troops both by fea and land: I fhall most readily agree to celebrate it in our addrefs to the throne; but if we do, I think, we fhould take proper notice of the conduct which render'd that bravery ineffectual by fea, except what happen'd the very last year of the war, and which by land made it turn to their own destruction, from the first maffacre at Fontenoy to the laft at La Val. No one will fay, that this could be owing to any mifcondu& in the royal cummander, therefore it could be owing to nothing but the fuperior numbers of the enemy, which, our minifters ought to have known, and ought in time to have provided againit; for war is not now to be carried on as it was in former days, when battles were fought with militia on both fides, juft taken from the plough and brought to action, and when 10,000 brave men might perhaps put an army of 100,000 to flight, becaufe when any one part of fuch a great army was routed, or thrown into confufion, the rest were generally feized with a panick, and ran away before the approach of danger: Whereas now, that war is carried on with regular troops on both fides, the rout or confufion of one G part of an army makes no impreffion upon the reft, unless it be to make them march up with the more fpeed to the relief of their companions; therefore an army much more nuEeez F merous houfe to fay, that even at sea, we have had fignal fuccefs thro' the whole courfe of the war? Surely, the taking of a few rich prizes, or a few fingle ships of war, cannot be called fignal fuccefs. Have we had any other, except in the last year of the war? Therefore, we may declare ourselves truly fenfible of the fignal fuccefs, which in the last year of the war attended his majesty's arms at fea, and which our minifters might have made a much better ufe of in their negotiations for peace, than they appear to have done; but when we reflect upon the unfortunate fea-fight near Toulon, when we reflect upon the efcape of the French fleet, to and from the Weft-Indies, during every year to the very laft year of the war, C can we with any decency fay, that we are truly fenfible of the fignal fuccefs, which has attended his majefty's arms at fea, thro' the course of the war? merous than that of the enemy is I therefore think, Sir, that if this paragraph be allow'd to ftand part cf our addrefs, we should conclude it in the following manner: And as all due attention shall be paid on our part, to the fervices of thofe gallant men, who have fignaliz'd themselves fo glariously in defence of their country, we hope a ftrict enquiry will be made into the caufes, which render'd the events of the war fo little answerable to the bravery of the troops employed. Such a conclufion as this would look fomething like the antient fpirit of our British perliaments; but as I think the whole paragraph, as well as the two preceding, ought to be left out, I do not hereby intend to propose any thing by way of amendment. I come now, Sir, to what the noble lord has propos'd as the last parigraph of our addrefs, and this I fhould readily agree to, if two short fentences were left out, the firft of which is in thefe words, thro' the Tourfe of the war. Is it poffible for any gentleman to fay, is it confiftent with the honour and dignity of this The other fentence in this paragraph, which I find fault with, is in D thefe words, by making good its engagements. I fhall chearfully join, Sir, in affuring his majesty, that we will grant fuch fupplies as are neceffary to preferve the honour of the nation, but I cannot add, by making good its engagements, before I know E what those engagements are. The late treaty of peace is not yet laid before us, and therefore, we neither do, nor can know what engagements his majesty may have been advifed by his minifters to enter into by that treaty. Shall we then oblige ourfelves to make good thofe engagements, when, for what we know, they may be fuch as must be attended with certain ruin to the nation? F Thus, Sir, I have deliver'd my fentiments, of what has been offer'd by the noble lord by way of an adG drefs upon this occafion; but as I do not know how they may be receiv'd by the house, I fhall not conclude with any motion, because, if they feem to be agreeable, I do not quef tion tion but fome gentleman whofe fentiments are the fame with mine, will rife up and move for the proper amendments; for otherwise, let the confequences be what they will, I muft give my negative to the motion, which I hii do with regret, because I think fome fort of an address necessary by way of answer to his majesty's most gracious fpeech from the throne. A The next that Spoke in this Debate, T fpeech, we may with abfolute free- After what I have premised, Sir, HE Hon. gentleman was much in the right to begin with telling us, that he defpaired of any fuccefs in the oppofition he was C to make to the addrefs propofed; for it is fo modeft, and all the expreffions fo general, that no juft exception can be found to any one of them, especially as every gentleman knows, that in our future proceedings we are not ty'd down by any words D or expreffions in our addrefs upon this occafion; and as it is a custom which I may now call immemorial, to make some compliment to our fovereign, upon every article which he has been gracioufly pleased to mention to us in his fpeech from the E throne; as fuch compliments have always been made or mov'd for, the very first day of the feffion, they never were, nor indeed ever could be founded upon what is called parliamentary knowledge, nor can fuch a knowledge ever be required or thought neceffary. They are founded folely upon what his majesty has been pleased to communicate in his fpeech, the truth of every part of which is, for that time at least, taken for granted; and if upon a proper inquiry, when we have all proper G lights before us, and have from thence obtain'd a parliamentary knowledge: I fay, if it fhould then appear, that any measure has been mifreprefented in his majesty's F te |