trial, as one intitled to equal approation, and very nearly relembling in its nftitution the beft fort of special jury. ut furely when the right hon. gentleman flected, that no man becaine fubject to ais new judicature, except by his own hoice, and at the fame time compared the tuation of the companies fervants with at of the men on whofe bravery the inependance and fafety of our country epended, (our land and naval forces) any of whom were forced into the fetvice gainst their will, and detained there contary to their wishes, he could not pretend fay, that if it were just to govern fuch en by martial law, and to fubftitute in heir trials a Court Martial for a jury, it was an hardship on the fervants of the Baft India Company, who had the option o go there or remain at home, and when hey might return as they pleafed, that a node of trial fould be inftituted for them hfferent from that which was generally fed, and which they might entirely avoid, aulefs the profits and advantages of an Saft India employment appeared to them fufficient compenfation. The right hon. rentleman had entered largely into the ftate of the revenue of the Company's fettlements, and had calculated, that the only increase he expected to hear of, was an annual deficiency of thirteen hundred thousand pounds, and errors not of fmall fums and fractions, but of millions. He would not for the prefent attempt an exact ftatement of the furplus of the revenues of the Eaft Indies; but he would only fay that he expected and believed that they would be found, after some regulations and retrenchments had taken place, to exceed in a ten fold proportion to the incumbrances under which they laboured, any furplus that might be hoped for in this country. His warmeft wishes would indeed be gratified, and the moft fanguine dreams that had ever been formed of the profperity of Great Britain would be more than realized, if it could be found that our refources for diminishing our debt, bore any comparison to thofe of the Eaft India Company. With refpect to the fuppofed inconfiftency of Lord Macartney's appoint ment to the precedency over the general affairs of the Company, at the fame time that his conduct in the affignment of the revenues of the Carnatic was not approved of, he defired it to be recollected, and although he and Mr. Haftings had differed upon more points than one, yet that affair alone excepted, he had acted in such a manner

as entitled him to the higheft applause that words could poffibly beftow. Here he launched into a moft profufe and warm panegyric on the character of Lord Macartney, concluding that from the whole of his adminiftration of the government of Madras he appeared to be perfectly eligible to that of Bengal, and particularly as the only object, in which his conduct at Madras had been thought objectionable, was one in which the policy of the mea fure was with Lord Macartney, though the good faith and credit of the nation rendered it neceffary to make a facrifice; befides that particular object would no longer have been under Lord Macartney's department, after he had been removed to Bengal. He was happy to find the right hon. gentleman entertained fo high an opinion of the noble lord, because it would tend perhaps to reconcile him to a part of the Eaft India bill he fo much complained of, to find that a nobleman of fo much reputation and fuch diftinguished virtue had borne, in the most pointed manner, the teftimony of his approbation to the fyftem of calling all perfons returning from the Company's fervice to account on oath for their acquifitions. For though that restriction did not extend itself to him, yet fo much did he approve the fpirit and principle of it; nay, fo neceffary did it appear to him, for his own honour, that he voluntarily came forward and complied with the claufe, even before its operation commenced. And he hoped that after fo illuftrious an example, no man would take upon him, to depreciate the good policy and juftice of the reftriction. He obferved that this action of Lord Macartney's was in itself fo noble, fo difinterested, and fhewed fo pointedly the dignified fentiments by which he was actuated, that even if his opinion of that nobleman's vittue and character were inferior to that of the right hon. gentleman; nay, had he even difapproved of his general conduct in his government, yet this action alone would have been fufficient to atone for all former mifcarriages, and to have entitled him to the highest glory and the loudest applaufe. He had, he faid, been called upon by the right hon. gentleman to declare whether the event had justified the confident affurances that had been given by him and his friends, that his bill would be received with joy and gratitude in India? He faid, that if fuch affurances had been given, it would be then fair to expect that they should be fulfilled. But,

in fact, nothing of that fort had dropt from him. The Bill was a reftrictive Bill, and as fuch it could not be expected that it would be received with any fanguine marks of approbation by thofe on whom its reftrictions were to operate. But this laft recited inftance proved, that however enquiry and fcrutiny may militate against the inclinations of the unjuft and dishonourable, the man of true virtue and integrity will be always ambitious to meet them.

plus of the revenue would be found e, confiderable and important, as WC.. prove to the Right Hon. Gentleman, t the contemptuous expreffion he had mat ufe of was highly inapplicable. A que tion had been started through what meas this furplus had accrued, and whether t honour refulting from it belonged to . Majefty's Minifters Into that quef he found himfelf very little inclined enter it was enough for him that t furplus did exift, and the fatisfaction felt at the comfortable profpect it afford. to his country was fufficient to aben and overpower every idea of a perfon nature that it could poffibly give rife He drew the most exhilerating pactes of the fituation of what this cotry would be, after a few years ho have fhewn the practicability of plying the redundance of the venue to the visible and progreffive di nution of the national debt. He per adverted to Mr. Fox's obfervations on fubject of the Irish arrangement, and a pofed, in the most pointed terms, the propriety of speaking on a fubject of fe delicacy, in the unguarded and inf. matory manner they had heard. E. muft, however, he said, notwithstanding his own difproportion of fuch langua do the Right Hon. Gentleman the juft to acknowledge, that he was convince he must have had some public good 10 view in what he had faid, for he ecu 17 not poffibly conceive any perfonal moors! for introducing certain topics which hel been made ufe of; he had according t delivered his fentiments fully and clean, notwithstanding the difagreeable feelings | they must have given rife to, and in de fiance of that fharpeft of all flings-t own invective. He had, in the plainc and most unequivocal manner, declare!, that no enemy to the British Empire cosa poffibly accomplish his malicious defigna against it in fo effectual a manner as impreffing the fifter kingdoms with an icea that their interefts are incompatible, ar that the advantage of one muft natural imply the detriment of the other. F brought back the recollection of the Houfe to the origin of fuch a doctrine! pointing out, that during the difcuffie of the whole of the Irish business, whe he and his friends uniformly endeavoured to argue on the grounds of mutual and reciprocal advantage to cach kingdom, they were answered from the other fide d the Houfe by arguments which had fr their bafis nothing elfe but this now re

So far, he faid, he had followed the Right Hon. Gentleman in fuch parts of his fpeech as were entirely foreign to the fubject. He fhould now return to thofe parts which were immediately within the compafs of the queftion. He was glad to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman had changed his fentiments fo completely on the fubject of the finances fince the laft feffions; he remembered that at that time the Right Hon. Gentleman declared it as his firm and fixed opinion, that the revenue would be found to fall fest, by at leaft fourteen hundred thoufand pounds, either of the annual expenditure of the kingdom, or of that fum that was to leave one million furplus for the diminishing of the national debt, for which of the two the Right Hon. Gentleman had declared himfelf at a lofs to determine; however, in either cafe there must have been a confiderable deficiency, and yet now the Right Hon. Gentleman declared, that no perfon could have ever doubted but there must be fome furplus. Mr. Pitt here enlarged upon the flighting manner in which Mr. Fox had treated the whole internal bufinefs of the country; he had for infiance faid, that there was fcarcely any part of the Speech worthy of confideration, and when he came to fpeak of the increase of the revenue, he only expreffed himself by the trivial term-fume furplus. Having dwelt for fome time upon the abfurdity of the idea, that a propofal for diminishing the burthens of the country, eftablishing her credit, and ftrengthening her refources, were fubjects fcarce worthy of consideration, and that in the eye of a gentleman who had thought the leagues and views of almod every other State in Europe worthy of the attention of Parliament. He proceeded to declare, that it would fhortly appear that the fur.

Mr. Fox's Speech here alluded to, is given in this Month's Magazine, Page

52.

probated

probated idea of the incompatibility of Eaglift, and Irish interefts, from whence it was inferred that an arrangement to benefit one country must proportionably injure the other. He animadverted with great feverity on the words ufed by Mr. Fox, that the two countries were in a fituation fimilar to that which precedes the commencement of a war-our having made a demand, with which the other had refufed to comply. This he fully expofed, by fuppofing a number of cafes, both of a public and private nature, in which demands muft neceffarily be made, that the party cannot be fure will be acceded to, nor could any matter of arrange ment, of bargain, or of compact, in which fuch a rifk, if rifk it may be called, must be incurred. He put a cafe of two friends proceeding to fettle an account, but fuddenly interrupted by fome good natured friend fuggefting the danger of any propofal being made by one, until there was a certainty the other would agree to it-for in that cafe, fays the mediator, you must go to war!-He then recapitulated the arguments ufed in the former feffions to justify the order in which the different steps of the Irish negociation had been conducted, lamented their failure, and expreffed his fincere regret, that while this country had to contemplate the pleafing profpect before her, and the prefent profperous ftate of her affairs, he had not been hitherto able to extend the bleflings ftill farther, by communicating thofe of her commerce to the ffter kingdom.

Mr. Fox rofe to explain as foon as the Chancellor of the Exchequer fat down, and complained of grofs mifreprefentation. Mr. Fox faid, when he had obferved, that not being a Minifter, he could talk more freely than a Minifter could upon the fubject, in relation to foreign powers, he meant not that he, any more than the Right Hon. Gentleman, was warranted to lay any thing in that Houfe criminal in its nature, or injurious to the interefts of his country. What he alluded to was, he might talk of France as the natural enemy of Great Britain, and the like, which it would not be decent for the Right Hon. Gentleman to do. With regard to the ingenuity of the Right Hon. Gentleman in putting the cafe of two private men fettling an account, and the abfurdity of contending that they ought to be precluded from previously difcuffing it; great as the abfurdity might be, Mr. Fox declared he was willing to

take the whole of it upon himself, when he contended, that in great questions that required a fettlement between two Princes, two Parliaments, or two Powers, certain important confiderations would arife, which it would be highly impolitic to difcufs or agitate at all, without being pretty certain before-hand that both parties would agree upon them ultimately. He took notice of Mr. Pitt's argument relative to guaranteeing Hanover, and faid, undoubtedly if Hanover fuftained an injury in confequence of the part the policy of Great Britain might dictate to her to purfue in cafe of a war in Germany, Great Britain muft guarantee her, as the always had done. All he had contended for was, that Minifters had no right to difable Great Britain from fubfequently acting with the Emperor, if it fhould ap pear that it would moft promote the Bitifh intereft. Mr. Fox alfo faid, if he was to understand the Right Hon. Gentleman, as difavowing any refponsibility for the advice the British Minifters gave his Majefty as Elector of Hanover, he went a great way farther than he imagined any man would have ventured.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, he was ready at any time to meet the Right Hon. Gentleman on the question of the refponfibility of Minifters for the conduct of his Majefty as Elector of Hanover, refpecting his own hereditary Electoral territory; he had not denied refpon

bility as to that point; but had contended, that there was no occafion for his Majefty's Minifters to caufe his Majesty at that period to fignify to his Parliament what had been done by him as Elector of Hanover.

Mr. Fox faid a few words more in explanation.

Mr. Francis rofe, and made a warm and animating fpeech, but confined himfelf principally to the fituation of affairs in India, fince the paffing of the late bill for regulating the government of our poffeffions in that quarter of the world. He charged the Bengal account of expence and revenue with an error of three millions, and fpoke in ftrong terms against the injury done to the British fubjects in India, by the Bill of the Minifter, depriving them of the right of trial by jury. This, he faid, was a departure from the via antiqua of their forefathers, that he never would fupport or countenance. He reprobated the Bill alfo on the ground of its being a bad precedent, and therefore dangerous to be trufted in the hands of

to

Minifters, who, when once fuffered remain in poffeffion of one bad precedent, would, he faid, ufe that precedent to build others upon; he therefore declared, that he would, on fome future day, move for a repeal of that part of the Bill which inftituted the new mode of trial. Mr. Francis read two extracts of difpatches from Governor Macpherfon, one giving an account of the great diftrefs in the Carnatie; the other ftating that the Reform had not as yet operated in any great degree to the relief of the Company.

Mr. Dundas, in a fhort fpeech, charged Mr. Francis with mifreprefenting the account in queftion, by holding it up as an annual account of income and difburfements, whereas it was a general account in which the winding up of the war expences were inferted. Mr. Dundas alfo declared, that taking the advices collectively, they were fuch as gave him great fatisfaction.

'Mr. Francis fhortly replied, and faid, the fame excufe had been urged year after year; he asked, were the war expences never to be wound up? He pledged himfelf to prove the statement utterly false in the particulars to which he alluded.

Major Scott role after Mr. Francis, and faid, that if he fuppofed the first day of the feffion had been the proper time for reading letters from India, he would have brought three or four in his pocket too, for the information of the Houfe. He could not however, help obferving how very fallacious the Hon. Gentleman's statement of the finances in Bengal was. The apparent balance was 116 lacks against the Company, but lacks were 144 either fent to our fettlements in India, or employed in the purchafe of an inveft ment; and if thefe fums had been appied to the liquidation of the debt, a confiderable balance would have remained in favour of Bengal. Major Scott faid, the Hon. Gentleman had alluded to him as one of the fupporters of the India Bill. He avowed it, but if any thing he ever faid in that Houfe was worthy of being recollected, he could appeal to every Gentleman to prove, that he had invariably oppofed the ftrange prejudices which had ben entertained against the Company's fervants, and had proved that the nation and the Houfe had been mifled in various in tances. With respect to the new mode of trial he fupported it upon this principle, and upon this principle he ever thould fupport it; that it was infinitely butter for a perfon, who had been or was

in India, to have his conduct investigated by a Court fo conftituted as the one under the India Bill was, than that a Sele&t Committee of the Houfe of Commons fhould fit for three years together exami ning evidence against him in part, and circulating or fuffering their Reports to be circulated without proofs or vouchers, in the fhape of pamphlets, through every town and village in Great Britain, as was actually the cafe in the laft House of Commons, in order to prejudice the nation against a man, who had performed great and important fervices to the Company and the State during the late war, which ended honourably and glorioufiy in India, though unfortunately every where elfe. It was in this comparative view that he had approved, and ftill approved of the new Court of Judicature. Wah refpect to the claufes compelling the declaration of fortunes, and which had been the most disliked in India, he had approved of that too, as a facrifice to the prejudices of the hour. He had no objection to declare the amount of his own for tune, and upon a former occafion, he had faid Mr. Haftings would declare the amount of his.[A Member called out acrofs the Houfe, why does he not do it ?]

Major Scott replied, he had offered and was ready to do it, and the Directors had known long ago that his fortune was very inconfiderable; but it was the making of it an act of compulfion, which had made it fo very difagreeable to Gentlemen in India. And here Major Scott defired to fet a Right Honourable Gentleman right as to Lord Macartney. That noble Lord had tranfmitted to the Court of Directors, near two years ago, an account of his fortune as it then flood, and the prefent account was merely a continuation of the laft, up to the period of his refignation, and not in compliance with an act that had not taken effect, or a proof of his approbation of it.

Mr. Martin ftated his forrow to have occafion to remark any thing that told against a Miniftry, of whom he enter tained a high opinion, but he thought the fending and maintaining an Ambastadoṛ to the Court of Madrid for two years to gether, when it was notorious the noble Lord appointed had never entered Spain, an abuse of oeconomy that ought to be put a top to.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer apalogized for having omitted to notice that part of the fpeech of the noble Lord, who had moved the amendment, which related