was on all occafions to fpare the publick purfe, yet he would never confent to ftarve fo valuable and fo neceffary a part of the publick fervice.-It was ufual to keep the feveral regular regiments confiderably under their eftablishment in time of peace, because by fo doing, the army might be encreafed in time of war, without adding to the number of the regisnents, by filling them up to their full complement of men, which was certainly the most economical management that could be adopted, confiftent with prudence and good policy, as it was more eafy to make foldiers than commiffioned, and more efpecially non-commiffioned of ficers; and, in confequence of this mode being adopted, the regular regiments had never in time of peace, above two-thirds of their establishment complete. He propofed that the fame principle fhould be applied to the Militia; that the whole number of men fhould be ballotted for and enrolled, but that only two-thirds of them fhould be employed; thofe that were to be fo, being appointed for the actual duty, and to continue fo during the whole period of their fervice; by which means, one third of the expence of their pay would be faved, deducting only' fo much as would neceffarily go to defray the expence of the annual muster, which would not amount, however, to above one thousand pounds. There would, befides, be a further faving of one-third in the article of cloathing, which two favings would amount to about forty thousand pounds; a fum of too great confequence to be thought lightly of. Still, he faid, he was liable to alter his opinion, if he found the general fenfe of the gentlemen who had made the bufinefs their particuJar ftudy, againft him. And if the exempting one-third of the privates from the annual exercife, fhould be thought by them likely to render the Militia lets. ferviceable than it otherwife would be, he fhould moft willingly refign his opinion, and regret, that, for the prefent, he could only accomplish one of thofe two most de firable objects, the faving of the publick treature, and the promoting the best conftitutional defence of the kingdom,-the Milia

Mr. Pye rofe as foon as the Chancellor of the Exchequer fat down, and fpoke for a confider ble time in favour of the Militia. Before he fat down, he expreffed

his willingness to adopt the propofition fuggefted by the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. Rolle made many panegyricks on the inftitution of the Militia, but thought the annual embodying of them was a prejudice to the morals of the people, as it gave them habits of debauchery and idlenefs, and they were diffatisfied when they returned to their wives and families, and confequently became much worfe members of fociety.

Col. Orchard defended the Militia from the charge brought againft it by the Hon. Gentleman, of injuring the morals of the people, and faid, that it appeared the more extraordinary, as his Hon. Friend had

once confented to take a command in the fervice himself.

Mr. Rolle faid that his Hon. Friend had miftaken him; he had indeed offered when the enemy was expected on the coast of Devonshire, to go down and raise five hundred men; but, upon his honour, he had never offered to go into the Militia.

Col. Orchard replied, that, upon his ho nour, he thought he had made fuch an offer.

Mr. Young fpoke in favour of annually embodying the Militia, that gentlemen might know their neighbours, and be able to inform themfelves of their characters, as to who were poachers, drunkards, or quarrelfome, and alfo for the purpose of rendering the corps more ferviceable.

Sir Edward Afley fpoke in favour of the general institution, but complained of many parts of the regulations of the Militia, and thought it ought to be made es palatable as poffible to the people. Sir Edward faid, he thought 28 days too fhort a period of time for the Militia to be trained and exercifed with any effect. He would therefore mention a propofal that appeared to him more likely to prove generally ufeful, and that was:-That inftead of five, the Militia fhould be ballotted for four years only, and that they should be trained and exercifed for two months together in every fecond year.Sir Edward prefaced his fpeech with faying that when he rose to speak as a Mem ber of Parliament upon the fubject of the Militia, or any other topick, he confidered himself as entitled to fpeak his free fentiments, and that he was dealt unfairly by, if, because he difagreed with any propofition fuggefted as a regulation of the Militia, he was deemed an enemy to the in

ftitution.

ftitution. He had ever been a warm friend to the Militia, and formerly had the hohour to ferve in it.

Captain Berkeley apologised for troubling the Houfe on a queftion fo remote from the line of his fervice; but he only rofe to say, that a relation of his (his brother, Lord Berkeley) whom no perfon could pretend to think the worst officer in the fervice, had been confulted on the fubject, and had entirely coincided in opinion with the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Mr. Drake profeffed himself a friend to the Militia, as the natural and conftitutional defence of the country; but said, he confidered the gentlemen who had dedicated their time without doors to modify and digeft the bill, as delegates from the meeting that had fo laudably turned their attention to an object of great national importance, and therefore he fhould bow to their authority. The gentlemen of that defcription had fignified their approbation of the propofal of the Right Hon. Gentle man who fo excellently managed the finances of the kingdom, and their fanction was a fufficient reafon for him to vote for it. As to the objection started by an honourable and refpectable Gentleman, that calling out the Militia was injurious to the morals of the men, he faid, he had not ftudied the distinction between civil and military morals; if he had, the confideration would probably have given birth to fome florid ideas; but, perhaps, it was as well that he had not. Mr. Drake obferved, that to reconcile publick fervice with publick œconomy, was the great end of every good government; he gave the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Exchequer, full credit therefore for the middle line of conduct that he had pointed out between expence and utility, and should vote for the amendment.

Sir John Miller faid, he rofe to declare himself a strenuous friend to the Militia; he admired the inftitution, he acknowledged its utility, and hoped the country would never be deprived of fo conftitutional a defence. With regard to the present bill, he relied chiefly on the abilities and experience of thofe who had prepared it, and from confidence in their judgment and zeal, would give it his fupport. Sir John faid, "The fword, to which alone all human ordinances ruft fubmit, fhould in a free country be placed only in the ⚫hands of those who had property as well as liberty to defend." With regard to Great Britain, the root of our power, of

fenfive and defenfive, lay almost exclu fively in our Navy and Militia; they were both therefore great national objects, and ought to be cherished and encouraged by that Houfe. He traced the origin of the Militia from the reign of Alfred, to the prefent period. That great and wife Prince, he faid, by the aid of his Militia, defeated a powerful invasion, headed by Haftings, a warlike Dane. Henry the Second, to guard againft external infult, and to provide for internal fecurity, fixed an Alize of Arms, in conformity to which every fubject was to be armed and difciplined. The Militia of England in the time of Queen Elizabeth, amounted to 140,000 fighting men, befides what Wales could fupply, who were all ready to receive the contents of the Spanish Armada. In the reign of James the First, the Militia of England confifted of 160,000 fighting men, all well armed, and well difciplined. The civil war between Charles the Fift and the Parliament, Sir John declared, diffufed the ancient military fpirit through the whole body of the people, and it was notorious, that the British name and British glory were never more revered than under Cromwell. Charles the Second, he faid, imported at the Restora tion, vice, profligacy, and debauchery.The military fpirit of the nation was then loft. He distrutted the Militia. Brought. up in arbitrary principles, he fuffered the inftitution gradually to decay, and fubftituted guards and garrifons, conlifting atfirft of 5000, and afterwards of 8000 men in their room. James the Second difarmed the Militia, and fubftituted an army of 30,000 men, declaring to his Parliament that he had found the Militia useless and unferviceable by experience, and infifting upon fupplics to fupport his encreafed military, eftablishment. The fubfequent reigns of William and Anne, were dif tinguifhed only by wars abroad, and factions at home: many attempts were after wards made to revive a national Militia, but in vain, till that great and ever to be revered Minifter laid the fo long wished for foundation, upon which we were, Sir John faid, he trufted, with the aid of his fucceffor in name, virtues, talents, and fituation, to raise a proper fuperftructure. Sir John declared, he felt shame and mortification, at our being occafionally obliged to import foreign mercenaries to defend our commerce and conftitution, our liberties, our properties, and our capital. He added various other pertinent remarks and obfervations, and declared, when the 3 M &

fit

fit opportunity offered for his ftating his fentiments refpecting the lately exploded fyftem of fortification came, he would explain himself fully on that fubject. With regard to the prefent bill, Sir John faid, he hoped the Houfe would go literally into the completion of it, and give thofe who had brought it forward full praife and ample aid, fo as to render the Militia an honourable, an useful, and as far as might be confiftent with their efficiency, an œconomical fafeguard to the country. He concluded with declaring, that the propofition of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to call out two-thirds of the Militia annually, had his full approbation.

After fome farther converfation, the propofal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was adopted, and the Committee proceeded to fill up the blanks of the fuc ceeding claufes of the bill.

Mr. Neville (the Chairman of the Committee) was ordered to report the amendments next Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMON S.

Monday, March 13, 1786,

EAST INDIA BILL.

Mr. Dundas gave notice, that he fhould on Wednesday next move for leave to bring in a bill to amend and explain the A&t for regulating the affairs of the Eaft India Company, paffed in 1784.

CALL OF THE HOUSE.

Mr. Francis faid, he rofe to make a very fhort motion on a very strong ground. That the determination of various meafures of effential importance to this nation was now approaching, which it would be very improper to agitate or conclude, with out having taken every previous fep poffible to collect the fenfe of the nation concerning them. The impeachment of Mr. Haftings was an object of great publick intereft and concern. The plan of which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given fome intimation, for applying the exifting furpluffes of revenue to the discharge of the publick debt, was a matter of great national importance. But above all the reft, the declaration made by the learned Gentleman (Mr. Dundas) of his intention to explain and amend the India Bill of 1784, demanded the fpecial

attention of the publick, and called for t the attendance of all the representatives of h the people. A law by which an effential change was made in the criminal jurif. prudence of this kingdom, which intro duced new and dangerous principles inta the laws, and even into the manners of t the people; which fubftituted a trial by t high commiffion and inquifition, in place of the ancient judicatures and forms of trial by a jury, and by the country, and which did therefore avowedly invade and alter the conftitution of England, wat now to be revifed. If, on a revition, fech a law was confirmed, it would take rost in the conftitution, and might never be extirpated. That the first difcuffion of this law in 1784, had passed in very thin houfes. That there never was a fubjec that more earnestly called for the attention of Parliament. The publick would not be fatisfied to fee fuch a law confirmed by a thin Houfe of Commons. For thefe, and many other fimilar reafons, Mr. Francis moved, that the Houfe might be called over on this day fortnight.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer had no manner of objection to a call of the House, and particularly on account of the proceedings again ft Mr. Haftings; for as to the other two reafons offered by the Hon. Gentleman, he did not think they had fufficient weight, if unfupported by the third. As to his propofal with respect to the finances, it was no new thing, but one of which notice had been given in the earlier part of the laft feffion; nor fhould he by any means be fatisfied to put off that, or any bufinefs of equal importance, in order to wait for the rule of the Houfe, agreeable to the Hon. Gentleman's motion; and he believed he could make it appear to the House, that it would be highly improper to lofe any time in bring. ing that bufinefs forward as foon as it could poffibly be in a state of fufficient readiness. As to the notice that had been given by his Right Hon. and Learned Friend, it appeared rather fingular, that the Hon. Gentleman fhould think a call of the House necessary to prepare the way for a motion to bring in a bill to amend and explain an act that had been paffed but two feffions ago, when the faid Hon. Gen. tleman had brought on a motion for the total repeal of that act, without thinking a call of the Houfe neceffary, or without even taking the sense of the House by a divifion.

Mr. Francis replied, that there was a manifeft difference between his motion and

that

that of which the Right Hon. Gentleman had given notice; his was for a total repeal of an obnoxious Act, whereas the the Right Hon. Gentleman's was to eftablish and confirm it.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted that there was indeed a wide difference between the objects of the two Hon. Gentlemen; the one only proposed to modify and amend a law of regulation, the other intirely to do away and deftroy the whole fyftem.

Mr. Fox, contended for the neceffity of giving every, degree of folemnity to the Tubject of the East India Bill. It had been faid, that many letters had come from India, expreffive of the fatisfaction of certain individuals in the plan of regulation lately adopted. He admired, that fuch letters had been received, but it was a fubject worth inquiring into, whether thofe very letters did not contain as ftrong arguments in favour of a repeal of that plan, as thofe that came from its moft determined oppoRents-for the writers of them all ftated, that though they were fatisfied with the Act, and were willing to acquiefce and comply with it; yet they feared they fhould be abfolutely under a neceffity of joining in the general complaints that fo powerfully prevailed againft it. He fhould not at prefent, he faid, argue how far, or whether at all fuch a confideration ought to weigh with the Houfe, but would take it up, when the Right. Hon. and learned Gentleman brought on his Motion. He regretted that he had not been prefent in the Committee on the fhop tax, and declared that the modifications that tax had undergone, had by no means given fatisfaction to the metropolis, except in this, that being in fome inftances extenuated, it was therefore fo far the lefs oppreffive. He took this opportunity of giving notice that he would on Friday next, move for certain papers relating to the Mahratta treaty, which were a part of those that the Houfe had declined to ask for, on the motion of his Hon. Friend, under the plea of inexpediency, not only for the fake, or in the hope of obtaining the papers, but in order that he might feel the houfe upon the question, in order to judge whether it was willing to adopt the doctrine that had been attempted to be inforced, that no ftate papers fhould ever be afked for as long as his Majefty's Minifters would take upon themselves to object to their production, left they should betray secrets dangerous to the public:-a doctrine that muft completely

undermine and annihilate the whole fyftem of the refponfibility of minifters.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid, that he fhould not give any antwer to the Right Hon. Gentleman's doubt, whether it was the intention of the Houfe, or of Minifters, entirely to abolish all refponfibility. He fhould, however, meet the Right Hon. Gentleman on the question, when he brought it forward, and should be prepared to anfwer the invective and mifreprefentation that might be expected on that occafion-yet he hoped that the Right Hon. Gentleman would not, in future, make it a practice to call upon 'the Houfe to reconfider and redebate that which they had fo recently confidered and debated, and that merely as he had faid for the fake of experiment. He thought it neceffary that the Houfe fhould be informed when the bufinefs that required the folemnity of a call of the Houfe was likely to come on, in order that they might appoint the call, to as to give it operation and effect.

Mr. Burke faid, that he had trißed very little with the Houfe;that he had been employed with the most unremitting diligence in arranging the materials, and procuring information, for his intended profecution. And he believed no gentleman could think that an inveftigation of mal-adminiftra-' tion of India for fourteen years was a light or eafy task.-He thould on that day fortnight be able to move for a committee to examine and report upon the papers that had been laid upon the table, and fhould alfo move for certain witneffes to be examined at the bar, from whom he expected the House would meet with as much information as they could obtain from the papers.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer finding that the Right Hon. Gentleman had fixed a time for proceeding to his charge, thought that that time was the properett for the call of the houfe, he should. therefore move an amendment to the motion, "that instead of to-morrow fortnight, the words to-morrow three weeks be inferted," which amendment was carried without a divifion,

Mr. Fox gave notice, that he would on Friday next bring his motron for the India papers before the House, in fome shape or

other.

MILITIA BILL.

The order of the day being read for refuming the Committee on the Militia Bill, Mr. Jolie rofe to make fome objec

tions

tions against preffing it forwards too fpeedily, which however we did not diftin&ily hear, but imagined he claimed the performance of the promife that had been made on its first introduction.He was, followed by

Mr. Pye, who, in a very fair and candid manner explained the method he meant to purfue; which was to fill up the blanks in the Committee, and then to move for the printing the Bill as amended, with a view to poftpone the paffing of it to fuch a distant period as should have given an opportunity to the country Gentlemen to fee and judge of its propriety.

Mr. Rolle faid, that as many Gentlemen, had gone into the country in order to attend the grand juries of their feveral counties, he thould have oppofed the going into the Committee left it fhould be hurried on without giving them an opportunity of informing themfelves of its contents and tendency; but the promife of delaying it that had been made, had fully fatisfied him,

The Houfe then refolved itself into a Committee, and proceeded to fill up the remaining blanks of the Bill.

The Secretary at War rofe to explain, and remind the Houfe that he had given notice that there would be fome new claufes introduced into the Bill, and had particularly called the attention of the Committee to the claufes when he had propofed them. With regard to the poffibility of fuch a cafe occurring as that of a brevet officer happening to be in command, he hinted that fuch a cafe had occurred, and it had been held, that the officer could not be brought to a court martial.

Mr. Francis, General Burgoyne, Mr. Sheridan, Mr. Fox, and Mr. Wyndham, fupported the objection, on the ground that it was introducing a new and dangerous principle into the Mutiny Act, that of fubjecting perfons who were not paid by the legislature, and confequently were not under the controul of that houfe, to Martial Law. They contended, that the idea of making any man liable to Martial Law was founded altogether on the circumftance of his receiving pay, voted by the Houfe of Commons; and that the new claufe led to confequences extremely alarming, as it would countenance the keeping up an armed force in the country, that was neither paid by the legiflature, nor fubject to the legislative controul.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer defend

Thurfday 16th March, 1786.

MUTINY BII L.

A converfation took place on bringing up the Report of the Committee on the Mutiny Bill, refpecting the new claufe for fubjecting officers by brevet receiving no pay, who fhould be in command, to be tried by a court martial.

It was begun by Col. Fitzpatrick, who defired to know, upon what principle of neceffity or propriety that claufe was founded?

up a matter of a doubtful nature. He ftated the cafe of General Rofs, that had recently occurred, and mentioned, that upon the last reference that was had to three of and in command was liable to a Court the Judges, whether an Officer by Brevet Martial, one Judge gave it as his opinion that he was; another judge gave it as his opinion that he was not; and a third declared himself doubtful, whether he was

or not.

At length the Houfe divided, Ayes 79, Noes 17.

INDIA BILL AMENDED,

Mr. Dundas faid, he did not mean to go largely into the fubject of his intended new Bill, as it had fo lately undergone a confiderable degree of difcuffion in that Houfe, and as he conceived the second reading of it, or when the Bill should be

He declared unless

fome cafe should be frated to the House of the kind in queftion, he should think it fcarcely poffible to happen, and therefore he faw no uf in introducing fuch a novel ty into the Mutiny Bill.

time for Gentlemen to offer any objections to it, that they might think proper to make, and for him to endeavour to anfer the.n. At the prefent he would just fate the heads of the principal alterations that he proposed to make in the prefent

Bill.