Just as the Speaker was putting the question, "That this petition do lie on the table."

Lord Surrey rofe, and defired to say a few words before the queftion was put. He hoped the worthy member who had given notice of his intention to move for leave to bring in a bill for the repeal of the fhop tax, would fix on an early day for that purpose, or that, if did not, government would take up the bufinefs, and do fomething with it that fhould be effectual. He ftated, that a tax on fhops had been imposed on the fubject by the authority of parliament, which tax, it was notorious had not been collected, but food at this day a difgraceful proof of the inefficiency of Adminiftration; government ought therefore to propofe fuch regulations as fhould enforce the collection of the tax, or they ought to repeal it. His Lordship added fome obfervations on the manner in which the publick business had gone on fince the fetion had commenced; the Houfe had met generally about three, and the minifter came down to move the queftion of adjournment at about twenty minutes before four o'clock; this be thought an improper mode of conducting the national concerns of a parliamentary nature, and that more ought to have been brought forward for the confideration of that House than had been opened to them. His Lordup declared, he intended to have addreffed what he had faid to the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of his Majefty's councils, had he been prefent, and he hoped some of those who were immediate ly connected with him, would inform him of what had been thrown out, as in all probility the question of adjournment would that day be moved, and carried before the Right Hon. Gentleman came down to the House.

Mr. Rofe faid, that whatever governmeat might think it adviseable to do, with regard to the fhop-tax, or any other meafure of publick concern, it would be a fitter fuoject for difcuffion when his Right Hon. Friend was prefent, and he could affure the noble Lord that he would fee him very thortly. With regard to the publick business being delayed, there was not the finalleft foundation for the complaint. The fupplies of the year had been brought forward in regular gradations as early as in preceding feffions of parliament, nor could one be inftanced, confidering the period of time the Houfe had fat, in which the public bufinefs was

more advanced in its progrefs. As to what the noble Lord had been pleafed to fay in respect to the fhop-tax not being collected, as far as had come to his knowledge, the contrary was the fact. Regular affeffments as in the cafe of every other tax had been made, and he had not heard of any obftruction to the collection. Mr. Rofe, preffed what he had faid, as an irrefragable argument that the noble Lord had been ill-founded in the greater part of his obfervations.

The Southwark petition was ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. Alderman Sawbridge faid, he fhould defer making any motion as to that part of the petition of the retail fhopkeepers of the City of London, which prayed to be heard by themfelves or counsel against the tax, till the motion which an honourable member had pledged himself to make, fhould be under confideration, as well as all the petitions that had been and thould be prefented upon the fame subject. NAVY.

Mr. Brett gave notice that he should vice of the current year in the committee move the number of feamen for the ferof fupply next Monday.

MILITIA.

Soon after the Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken his feat, the Hon. Charles Marsham rofe, and expreffed a wish to fay a word upon the fubject, to which he had lately called the attention of the House, namely the militia. Several gentlemen who had ferved in that constitutional body of force, had, as he before mentioned, jointly with himself turned their attention to the fubje&t with an anxious wish to be able, by fit and falutary regulations, to put the militia on a refpectable and an use ful footing; and with this view they had prepared a bill in which they had introduced several alterations, they should not have thought proper to have adopted, had they not been convinced that an adherence to the ftricteft economy was abfolutely neceffary, all the circumftances of the country confidered. As he found, how ever, that adminiftration differed with them as to a point which in their minds was most effential of any towards restoring the militia to the degree of refpect and utility, every friend to his country muft with it to poffefs, viz. the neceflity of embodying and training them regularly every year, and as the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of his Majefty's councils, had

not

not been able to make up his mind upon that point, without the enforcement of which, many, if not all of the gentlemen with whom he had confulted upon the fubject, were of opinion it would be better to have no militia at all, he thought it right to take no further step in the bufinefs, but to let the matter reft where it was. Of this, however, he was perfuaded, that another year could not pafs over without fomething being done upon the subject, a pofitive act of parliament being at that time in full force, which expreffly ordered that the militia fhould be called out every year, whereas they had not been once called out for two years together.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer complained of the pain it had occafioned to his feelings, and the hardship he was likely to undergo, by being in this manner particularly held out as the perfon through whom the publick was to be deprived of the advantages that many refpectable officers of the militia expected would refult from a plan on which they had beftowed fo much pains and attention.-He confeffed that there could be nothing more defirable than an arrangement that thould reconcile the national defence by a militia to the principles and practice of economy; but though he had not made up his mind upon the queftion, whether the prefent propofal would have that effect; he faw no reason why the circumftance of one individual member of parliament, wishing to withold his opinion until after a fubject of fuch importance fhould be debated and argued, fhould be a means of preventing its coming forward at all. It was certainly the duty of every member of parliament to fuggeft and propofe fuch plans as appeared to him likely to promote the publick welfare; yet the Hon. Gentleman he apprehended, was particularly pledged to the country to bring forward his plan, having given notice that he had methodized and arranged it; nor ought it to be any objection to his fo doing, that he (Mr. Pitt) had not yet fufficiently confidered it, to venture to give any decifive fentiment on the propriety of one particular part, (the calling out the militia annually) and efpecially as he had not yet heard even the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman himfeif, he muft of courfe want confiderable helps towards forming his judgement upon it. He appealed to the candour of the Hon. Gentleman, and called upon him as a refpectable and well meaning member of parliament, and as a zealous friend to the

inftitution of the militia, to fay, whether it was confiftent with his duty to the pub lick, and the Houfe to withold from them a plan which he thought of fo much confequence, merely, because one member withed to have the advantage of hearing the fubject fully difcuffed before he would venture to decide upon a moft effential point of it; or whether it was fair to prefs him to give an opinion before he was fufficiently master of the subject to do fo?

With refpect to the Hon. Gentleman's idea, that the not having called out the militia for the last two years, might subject any particular defcription of perfons to blame, he could by no means coincide with him; because it was well known, that although the act of parliament authorifed and enjoined an annual embodying of the militia, yet it lay with that Houfe to provide the means, by voting the fupply for defraying the expence attendant on it; and when that Houfe did not provide the means, the act of parlia ment was, as the Speaker well knew, a ormant ftatute; he added, that it would be highly improper, except in cafes of the greateft neceflity to call out the militia, when no provision had been made for the charges incident to it; and by fo doing to faddle the country with an expence which parliament had not authorised.

Mr. Marsham rose a second time, and complained of the manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had ftated the facts in queftion between them. He appealed to the Houfe, whether a matter of fuch important national concern as the Militia, was not a more fit matter for Government to fuperintend, and regulate by the propofing of fuch meafures respecting it, as fhould from time to time appear neceffary, than to be left to the fuggef tions of private perfons, or Members of Parliament? He had certainly in conjunction with other Gentlemen endeavoured to prepare a Bill, calculated as far as their judgments went, towards putting the Militia on a refpectable footing, and he had ftated feveral of the particular regulations it contained, to the House, at an early day after their meeting; but finding that the fenfe of a right Honourable Member of the Minifter of the Coun try was against him on that point, which, he confidered as the moft effential of all in effecting the withed for purpose, he had not loft a moment in declaring, that if the Right Honourable Gentleman could not make up his mind to the idea of

calling

calling out the Militia once a year, without which measure, in his opinion, and that of the beft informed men on the fubject, the Militia would become an useless and a burthenfome incumbrance on the country, he should not think it right to give himself or the Houfe any more frouble refpecting it, but would let the matter rest as it was. A friend to the Militia, he certainly was, and he trufted he endeavoured faithfully to discharge his duty to his conftituents, and to his country as a Member of Parliament, but he could not conceive he acted improperly, if finding that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not yet made up his mind upon the most effential point of all thofe proposed by his intended Bill, he chofe to ftop where he was, and to proceed no further with a propofition, the main point of which was not likely to meet with the countenance and fupport of Administration. With regard to what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said, in respect to the exifting ftatute which enacted, that the Militia fhould be regularly embodied once a year, being a dormant law, and in no force, unless that House provided the means, not only he, but a great many very refpectable perfons differed with the Right Hon. Gentleman. That the purfe of the nation was in that house was well known; but his idea was, that an unrepealed pofitive ftature was, and ought to be in full force; and that it was the duty of that Houfe to vote the money every feffions, that the embodying the militia would coft. If they neglected to do this, they took upon themfelves to difpenfe with the law of the land, and to let the authority of the whole legislature at nought.

Mr. Minchin rofe to lay a few words on the fubject of the Militia, but was interrupted by the Speaker, who reminded him that no motion was before the Houfe.Mr. Minchin bowed obedience, and faid, he would take a future opportunity of declaring his fentiments on the fubjećt.

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

Just as the Speaker was putting the queftion" that this Houfe do now adjourn,"

Lord Surrey rofe and repeated his complaint on the fubject of the little business that had been done fince the feflion commenced. The Houfe, he obferved, had ufually met about three o'clock, and adjourned before four. An Hon. Gentleman in office had that day declared, that the bufinefs of Supply had gone on as quick

and as regularly as ever, but was there no other public bufinefs than the business of Supply? If the queftion refpecting the Shop Tax had been brought forward, they might at that day have been difcuffing it; and if it were meant to try to enforce that unpopular tax, by a variety of minute regulations, in all probability the bill when it fhould be brought in,would take up the time of the committee for many days together. If fo, had it not better be brought in early, and not be the means of keeping the houfe fitting fo late in the year as the end of Auguft, to which period they had been obliged to fit laft feffions? The principal matter that had then detained them, had failed; why, he would not lay, but poffibly that was one reafon among others, why they had not been fooner called together. At any rate the great questions, and furely there were fome refpecting the finances and the revenue of the kingdom which were to be difcuffed, had better be brought in early. A great part of the delay, his lordship imputed to their having a fingle refponfible Minifter only among them. One of the Secretaries of State at leaft ought, in his opinion, to be always in that houfe; nor indeed was it right for the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer and the office of Minifter to be united in one and the fame perfon. The business of finance was fuppofed chiefly to occupy the mind of a Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that alone was fufficient to employ any one man's whole time, without his attention being diverted and engaged by the various objects that required the attention of a minifter.-His lordship argued upon these points for a few minutes, and among other bufinefs that would neceffarily come under confideration,he mentioned that part of his Majefty's fpeech, that, he faid, had created fuch general alarm without doors, viz. where little additional burthens' were talked of. The matter, he declared, called for explanation; the public ought to know whether more taxes were defigned to be imposed on them

for government to find out and to apply an adequate remedy. He withed, therefore, when gentlemen were defirous of pointing out the one. they would be fo good as to come prepared to fuggeft the other; this, he could affure the Houfe, that every poffible attention fhould be fhewn on the part of government to every fuggeftion that carried with it the fmalleft appearance of practicability, and that no pains fhould be fpared to carry fuch a fuggeftion into effect. At prefent, as he had faid before, a variety of proposals were under the confideration of government, and the great difficulty lay in fixing upon a fit place to tranfpoit convicts to; till the matter was decided upon, it neceffarily became incumbent on government to difpofe of the convicts in fuch a manner, as thould at once ferve to free the gaols of their company, and to keep the felons employed in a way most likely to be felt by them as a punishment, and to conduce in fome degree to the publick fervice. Inconveniencies unavoidably would refult from the convicts being fo employed ra ther than fent out of the country; but thole inconveniencies great as they might be, must be fubmitted to, till means could be found of duly enforcing fentences of tranfportation; and all he could fay was, that as foon as fuch means were fuggefted or determined on, no time fhould be loft In carrying them into execution.

REVENUE AND FINANCE.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer rofe, as foon as the business of the day was over, to give fome notice relative to the order in which he meant to bring on fubjects that had excited a great deal of attention on the part of the publick, and had very naturally been looked for with impatience by many gentlemen of that Houfe. The fubjects he alluded to were, he said, the ftate of the revenue, and of the finances of the country, which muft of neceffity be divided under two diftinct heads, and form two feparate objects of enquiry and confideration. The firft of the two would be an afcertainment of the actual state of the revenue, which could only be derived from a comparative statement of our annual national income with our annual national difburfement; and the other would be, an ascertainment of the best and wileft means of appropriating the furplus of our revenue, compared with our expenditure, fo as to form a permanent fund to be constantly and invariably applied to the diminution of the publick debt. Gentlemen POL. MAG. VOL. X, FEB. 1786.

would fee that the first of these two objects would require to be firft gone into, and that it must be entirely difpofed of, before it would be proper to proceed to any difcuffion of the fecond. Under this impreffion it was, that he had moved fome days fince for a variety of papers containing publick accounts under a variety of heads, all of which accounts were neceffary to be before the Houfe, in order to enable gen'tlemen to mark and trace the order and progrefs of the increase of the revenue, and to fee what was on the one hand to be added to the annual difbursements upon grounds of fair and accurate calculation, and what on the other hand was to be deducted from the income, as matters for which credit ought not to be taken in refpect to the increase of the annual revenue. Thefe papers, Mr. Pitt faid, would neceffarily take up fome time to make out; feveral of them were before the House already, others were accounts that were to be made up to particular periods, and though not all made out, were daily making out and completing: as foon however as they fhould be upon the table, after allowing a reasonable time for gentlemen to infpect them, he fhould take the liberty to move for a committee to examine them, and report their amount. The appointment of fuch a committee appeared to him to be the proper ftep to be taken, and as the committee would fcarcely have any thing to do, but to fum up the amounts of the different accounts and to report the total to the Houfe, compared with the total of the other side, which would necessarily give an accurate ftatement of the furplus, whatever it might be he should hope the occupation of the committee would be but fhort, and that in confequence no great delay would be occafioned. As foon as the whole was by means of the report of the committee fully and fairly before the Houfe, he would give notice of an early day on which he would ftate what the measures were that he had in contemplation, as most likely to conduce to an advantageous appropriation of the furplus of the revenue, towards the establishment of a permanent fund, to be invariably applied in diminution of the national debt. As it might afford fome fatisfaction to the Houfe to know, what were the reasons that hitherto had retarded, and would for fome few days longer delay the bringing forward the confideration and difcuffion of the important fubjects that he had touched upon, the Chancellor of the Exchequer fard, he had thought it incumbent on him

to