would only make them worse. The average expense of building a small house or cottage, for which a rent of nine guineas could be got was about 961., and, taking the hazard of loss and all charges, that could not be considered too high a return for such an outlay. He would, therefore, again contend, that any increase of expenditure in improving the condition of the house would not operate favourably to the persons now occupying small and inconvenient habitations, for they would not remain in them if they could afford to pay for better. He agreed with the noble Marquess that there were many scenes of great filth in many of the crowded neighbourhoods in and near the metropolis; but he must repeat that the present measure would aggravate the evils it was intended to cure. With those clauses of the bill which went to widen and improve streets he would concur, but there were so many other clauses from which he differed, that he had no alternative but to oppose the bill altogether.

The Duke of Wellington said, that having supported these measures in previous Sessions, he should give his vote in favour of them on the present occasion.

him out of town; and he was also prevented from attending during the last short Session of Parliament. His objection to this bill was, that in its details it tended to perpetuate the very evils which it professed to remove. Another ground of objection was, that he did not think there was sufficient information on the subject before the House, and he should wish to have it referred back to the committee. It was asked why the people should like to live in those dens, as they were called, and the answer was, because they could not afford to pay for better. Any regulations which would enforce the erection of better houses, and with means of preserving greater cleanliness would necessarily increase the expense of building, and that would enhance the rent to be paid by the tenant; and, if they could not pay for the better and more cleanly habitations, they would of necessity be forced to remain in their present unclean houses, or be driven into the streets. In the town of Manchester there were, it was said, 15,000 persons living in cellars; but though many of the poorer classes in Manchester might not be as sensible of the comforts of cleanliness as those in other places, yet still it was reasonable to The Marquess of Normanby, said, in aninfer that so many persons would not pre-swer to the Marquess of Salisbury, that in fer to dwell in such places if they could the temper of the House, and the evident pay for better accommodation elsewhere. disposition not to change the course previAs to the Drainage Bill, which the noble ously pursued, but to sanction the bills as Marquess had also introduced, he would he had again presented them, he did not not offer any objection to it, as he thought feel it necessary to enter into any detailed it was one which would do much good. reply to arguments which, after all, though It should be the policy of the Legislature coupled with a motion against the second to encourage buildings as much as possible, reading, were merely objections to detail. which would have the effect of lowering He, however, entirely denied the justice rents by the competition thus created; of the assumption, that the poor lived in but the present bill would discourage all these dens, as the noble Marquess joined in small buildings by rendering them too ex-calling them, because they could not afford pensive. One clause in this bill was, that no persons should be allowed to dwell in cellars which had not chimnies with proper flues to them; but if this rule were applied to the 15,000 persons occupying the cellars in Manchester, to which he had referred, it would have the effect of turning them into the streets; for, as he had said, they would not have those cellars if they could afford to pay for better places of abode. If their Lordships could so improve the wages of labour as to enable the working classes to pay for better accommodation he should not object to this bill; but if the condition of the poor could not be otherwise improved this

better. His information led him to believe that speculators made exorbitant profits from the working classes being obliged to dwell in certain localities. It was these profits he meant to reduce. The instance given by the noble Marquess confirmed, rather than contradicted this view. As for living in cellars, ample time was given for removal to other dwellings, before the prohibition came into operation, which was at the end of nine years, to this extent, that no cellar at present inhabited, should continue to be so, unless it had a window, an area, and a fire-place-surely, this was not requiring too much.

The Marquess of Salisbury would with

241 The Late Loan. Appropriation {FEB. 10}

Acts (1841) Amendment.

242

draw his opposition if the noble Marquess | in allowing sums to be applied as one would consent to refer the subject again to a select committee.

The Marquess of Normanby could give no such pledge, but would promise, that any suggestions the noble Marquess at that time made should be received with the utmost attention, in order that the bill might be rendered as unobjectionable as possible.

The bill read a second time.

fund, instead of as two funds.

Lord Monteagle concurred with the noble Duke that this bill ought to pass. It was to correct a technical mistake which arose from the inaccurate wording of the second Appropriation Act, which passed last Session, an inaccuracy which was by no means attributable to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He should, however, like to see the bill printed before the third reading,

The Borough Improvement Bill also because he understood an Amendment was read a second time.

CORN

LAWS.-PETITIONS.] Lord Kinnaird presented petitions from ten thousand of the inhabitants of Dundee, and from many other places in Scotland, for a total abolition of the Corn-laws. On presenting these petitions, he wished to offer a few observations upon the statement made by the right hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government last night. He had read that statement with the greatest regret. He felt certain that the measure announced by the right hon. Gentleman would be received by all throughout the country with the greatest disappointment. Before he resumed his seat, he wished to ask the noble Duke and her Majesty's Government whether a petition had been received from the relief committee of the town of Paisley and of Renfrew, praying that some of the corn, food, and other provisions now in bond at Liverpool and at Glasgow might be let out duty free to them as a relief to those unfortunate persons who had been subsisting for eight months on public charity?

The Duke of Wellington thought before the noble Lord asked a question about a petition, the presentation of which he was not certain, he should have ascertained whether the petition had been presented or not. He had not heard whether any such petition had been presented. That was all he could say upon the subject.

THE LATE LOAN. APPROPRIATION ACTS (1841) AMENDMENT.] The Duke of Wellington moved the second reading of the Appropriation Acts (1841) Amendment Bill. The object of the bill was to provide that certain sums voted the Session before last, and last Session, for certain services, should now be applied to other services. The consequence of passing this bill would be, that the accounts would be simplified and certain expenses be saved

introduced in the other House after the bill was first printed, and he was anxious to know the nature of that amendment. Before he sat down, he wished to ask the noble Duke whether there would be any objection to lay before the House the proceedings of the Government, under the Act of the last Session, with respect to the funding of Exchequer Bills? By that Act very extraordinary powers were given to the Government-though not greater powers than the peculiar circumstances of the times required. If the operation had been simply the funding Exchequer Bills, there would not have been the necessity of any subsequent Parliamentary informa tion on the subject; but, from the print of the bill, as originally introduced in the Commons, it appeared that the first operation contemplated was partly funding and partly receiving subscriptions in mo

ney;

in the of the bill, however, progress an alteration of an important character was made-namely, that of giving a power to the Government of selling stock to any which was required to be raised. That amount, to complete the sum of 5,000,000l., Government, and it implied great confiwas a great power to be given to any dence on the part of the Legislature that the party who marked his forethought in gave it, and good sense on the part of suggesting it; thus anticipating that which actually occurred; the operation of the bill would otherwise have been wholly incomplete. It gave the Government the sell public securities whenever it thought power to go into the money market, and fit; a power, in general, open to great objection, because liable to great abuse. He, however, was satisfied it had not been abused. But this being a power justified only by extreme necessity, a power of going without notice into the market, and disturbing the ordinary value of the public securities, he trusted the noble Duke would not consider he was asking anything unreasonable in requiring that there should

treme. The course taken in the present Petitions presented. By Mr. Busfeild, from Bradford, by instance was a much better one; still, inasmuch as it gave a great latitude to the discretion of the Government, he hoped the noble Duke would not object to lay before the House a full account of the manner in which the trust had been exercised.

246 STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES (IRE- | his Corn Bill a clause to prohibit the imLAND).] Lord John Russell had under-portation of flour into Ireland under all stood that there had been a reduction of circumstances, or did he mean to have a the number of the stipendiary magistrates uniform trade in the two countries? in Ireland; he would ask how far that reduction had gone, and whether it was intended to carry the reduction further?

Lord Eliot replied, that eight stipendiary magistrates had been reduced, and it had been contemplated to make a reduction of ten, but in consequence of the representations of the Lords-Lieutenant of counties, that the services of the others could not be conveniently dispensed with, the number had been limited to eight; and it was not the present intention of her Majesty's Government to carry the reduction farther. He begged to add, that the reduction had been carried on in such a manner that no selection had been made, but those were reduced who had been most recently appointed.

Sir Robert Peel had reserved this for separate consideration. He believed, that the restriction was in a separate bill.

Mr. Labouchere: No; it was a clause in the bill.

Sir Robert Peel said, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would allow him till Monday to give a reply: he had meant to reserve the point for separate consideration.

THE PUBLIC PARKS.] Mr. Ewart asked the noble Lord in the office of the Woods and Forests, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to throw open Richmond Park and Kew Gardens?

The Earl of Lincoln replied, that there was no present intention to make any alteration with respect to those grounds.

CORN-LAWS MINISTERIAL PLAN.] Dr. Bowring inquired whether any cliange Colonel Sibthorp rose, to ask the right or alteration was contemplated with referhon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Trea- ence to the not very intelligible order given sury, à question relative to the resolutions to the gate-keepers in St. James's-park, which he had laid on the table last night. by which persons having parcels were not Among those resolutions, he did not hear allowed to pass through? It had occurred one on a subject of great importance, and to himself once to be sent back because he would ask whether it were the right he had a bundle of petitions and a book hon. Baronet's intention to make any im-in his hand, and the order was the cause provement or alteration with regard to the of great public inconvenience. mode in which the duties are now taken upon the importation of corn; in fact, whether it were his intention to make the duty payable when corn was brought into this country, or when it was taken out of bond?

Sir Robert Peel said, it was not his intention to make any alteration in the period at which the duties on corn were paid.

Colonel Sibthorp would call the attention of the committee to that subject.

The Earl of Lincoln said, that the order in question was not made by the Woods and Forests, but by his Royal Highness the ranger of the park, and he knew nothing more of the order than seeing it in the papers.

TEXAN TREATIES.] Sir R. Peel had promised to give an answer to the question which the learned Gentleman the Member for Cork (Mr. O'Connell) asked the other evening, as to our relations with Texas. Mr. Labouchere would put a question on There were three treaties between Texas a point which materially affected Ireland. and this country, which had been duly The right hon. Baronet was probably aware signed by the agents of each party. One that there was a difference in the law re- was a treaty of commerce; the second gulating the importation of flour into Eng-related to the debt; and the third to the land and into Ireland. The importation of flour into Ireland was wholly prohibited, whilst it was admitted upon payment of certain duties into England. If the right hon. Baronet had the same law for Ireland as for England, flour would be admitted into Ireland at the same duties as into England. Was it the right hon. Baronet's intention to re-introduce into

slave-trade. The two first treaties, as to the commerce and debt, had received the sanction of the senate of Texas. The third, relating to the slave-trade, owing to the gentleman charged with that treaty not having arrived in Texas before the separation of the senate, had not received the sanction of that body. As the agreement was, that all the three treaties should