POOR-LAW RETURNING OFFICERS.] Mr. T. Duncombe wished to put a question to the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department. He had that morning received a letter from the chairman of the board of guardians of the Preston Union, from which it appeared that last year, during the election of the guardians of the poor, great dissatisfaction

2o. Marriages (Ireland); Van Dieman's Land; Appren-existed in the town of Preston, on account

consequence of a question that had been part of the House to sanction any duty put to him by the hon. Member for whatever; and also considering that the Knaresborough. It was the intention of country, on being appealed to by the late the Poor-law Commissioners generally to Administration, had distinctly recorded its appoint the clerks of the boards of guar- vote in favour of agricultural protection, dians to be returning officers at the ap- and that in that House, only early on that proaching elections. He had, at the same very morning, it had been decided by an time, stated the reasons that had influ- overwhelming majority in the most unenced them in coming to this decision. equivocal terms, that it was expedient They were, that the clerks of the boards that protection should be afforded to the of guardians were persons holding their agricultural interest;-considering these appointments during pleasure; that they things, he held himself entitled to conwere in the possession of valuable ap- clude, that the opinion of that House and pointments from which they were removeof the country at large was in favour of able for misconduct; and it had also been protection, and he should, therefore, not announced, that should any one of those offer any observation that could tend to returning officers, at the approaching elec-open again the general debate, on the extion, be found to have been guilty of the pediency or inexpediency of the existing least misconduct in the discharge of his Corn-laws. He would have infinitely preduty, condign punishment would certainly follow. At the same time, he (Sir J. Graham) stated, that all arrangements made for the election in March had been made with a view to the clerk of the guardians being the returning officer, and that any change made now, would involve the whole election in inextricable confusion.

"Whenever the average price of wheat, made up and published in the manner required by law, shall be, for every quarter, under 518., the duty shall be for every quar ter 1l."

Mr. Christopher rose, pursuant to the notice which he had given, to move the substitution of the scale of duties which he held in his hand, and of submitting them for the adoption of the committee in preference to the scale that had been recommended by his right hon. Friend, the First Lord of the Treasury. In bringing the subject under the consideration of the committee, he should best consider his own inclination and their convenience, by restricting his observations entirely to the scale itself. For, considering that for nearly the whole of the last fourteen days, they had been debating on the subject of the Corn-laws-first, whether it was expedient that there should be a fixed duty on the importation of foreign corn, aud secondly, whether it was expedient on the

His

ferred seeing the bill of the Government
on the Table, and he would have preferred
that that bill had obtained a second read-
ing before he had brought on his motion,
the forms of the House, he was precluded
but as he was given to understand that by
from offering any proposition at that stage
which had for its object to increase the
scale of duties beyond that proposed by
the Government, he was compelled to
adopt the present as the only occasion on
which he could state his views.
right hon. Friend in his opening speech,
introducing the measure of the Govern-
ment, stated, and stated most truly, that
it was a difficult matter to consider or to
propose any scale of duties on the impor-
tation of corn without at the same time
taking into consideration the question of
averages. That part of the measure of
the Government would not, in his (Mr.
Christopher's) opinion, give the producer
of corn in this country sufficient control
either as to fluctuating sales or averages.
Still he would endeavour to postpone any
observations he might have to make on
that part of the subject until the bill was
in committee; and he should, therefore,
strictly confine himself now to the subject
of the scale of duties. In the first place,
he was willing to admit that the scale pro-
posed by his right hon. Friend was, in
some respects, a considerable improvement
on that under which the duties were now
levied. Coupling the scale with the ques-
tion of the mode of taking the averages,
he must say, that he could not but look at
it as a considerable improvement. But he
thought he could show that if they were
to judge at all from past experience, that
scale would not afford sufficient protection

stated elsewhere, that he conceived it to be the duty, and also the interest of the British producer, to allow the consumer in this country to procure the chief necessary of life, at the lowest possible rate at which he himself could afford to grow it. He was convinced if it could be proved that in ordinary years, and under ordinary cir cumstances, foreign wheat could be brought into this country, exclusive of profit insurance and duty, at as low a price as 26s., the maximum duty ought not to be less than 30s. If it could be brought at 34s., which he believed it could be in ordinary years, the maximum duty ought not to be less than 25s. But from the information derived from Mr. Meek, it could not be placed free on board under 40s. 6d. Now, if he could concede that Mr. Meek was right and that he was

to the producer of corn in this country, not at that period when protection was not particularly required,-not at the period of an unusually abundant harvest,-but at the period of an average harvest, or a deficient harvest, when the producer, with all his energy, skill, and industry, was barely receiving a remunerating profit. He also agreed with his right hon. Friend in the opinion which he had expressed, as to the difficulty there was in attempting to say what, at all times, and all seasons, and under all circumstances, ought to be a sufficiently remunerating price to the producer of wheat. It was impossible to arrive at any satisfactory conclusion, without taking into consideration the relative value of other agricultural produce. But he thought he might safely say, that no one would accuse him of making an exag-wrong, then would he say, that the meagerated statement; on the contrary, he was sure he would be considered by many well judging persons to be very moderate in his statement, when he said, that when the price of wheat was 56s., that of barley ought to be 30s., that of oats 23s., and that of wool at least 30s. for every 28lb. It was a difficult matter to determine at all times, and under all circumstances, what the value was of agricultural produce on the continent. It was also difficult to form an opinion at all times, and under all circumstances, of what the price of freight, insurance, and other charges attendant upon bringing wheat into this country, ought to be. He had made it his business to gather information on the subject from private sources, but it was of so contradictory a nature that he would not more particularly refer to it. He would, however, say, that from all the information he had received he was fully convinced of this fact, that her Majesty's Government in legislating on this important question ought not to be guided in any degree by the information of Mr. Meek. That Gentleman stated, that the price at which wheat might be shipped from all quarters of Europe was 40s. 6d. per quarter. Now, that, in his opinion, was at least 10s. too high. If he could judge in any degree from the price at which foreign corn had been sold in bond during the last fourteen years, he must arrive at a very different conclusion from Mr. Meek; but he should be unwilling to ground his arguments entirely upon the price at which foreign corn had been solding the last fourteen years, and if he could in bond in the eastern ports of England. He, show under that supposition, that the prohowever, would repeat that which he had ducer of corn in this country could have been

sure of her Majesty's Government ought to be sufficiently satisfactory to the agricultural interest, and that the maximum duty of 20s., would afford to it a sufficient protection. He did not wish to rely exclusively on any information he had received regarding what the price of wheat in bond had been in this country during the last few years, but he wished to state, that he had received a communication from a very eminent merchant at Hull, who had been engaged in the corn trade for upwards of forty years, which he thought would be satisfactory to the hon. Member for Lambeth, and other hon. Members at that side of the House, so far at least as distinctly showing, that from the prices at which foreign corn was sold at Hull, there could be nothing prohibitory in the scale of duties proposed by her Majesty's Government. From the information forwarded to him by that gentleman, he found that in the year 1832 the lowest price of foreign wheat in bond sold at Hull was 32s. per quarter, and the highest in the same year 41s. 6d. In 1834, he sold as much as 1,589 quarters at 16s., which was the lowest, the highest price in that year being 30s. In 1835, the price ranged from between 17s. to 20s. 6d. ; in 1836, from 17s. up to as high as 42s.; in 1837, the lowest price was 27s. 6d., and the highest 39s. He would proceed now to test the scale of the right hon. Baronet by another proof. He would suppose, for the purpose, that the right hon. Baronet's scale had been in operation dur

cepting profit and duty.
and duty. A question
certainly arose as to what that sum ought
to be; and if he chose to argue it, he
could refer to extreme cases. He had been
informed that foreign wheat had been
brought into the port of Hull for 10d. a
quarter, into Gainsborough for 1s. 8d., and
into Wakefield for 3s. He, therefore, to avoid
dispute upon the subject, would allow 5s.
a quarter on wheat imported from the Bal-
tic, and 10s. from Odessa.
Add this sum
for freight, and insurance, and then add
20s., the proposed duty, and they would
find the following to be the prices of
foreign corn imported into this country
from the places specified, when corn in
England was under 50s.:

1833
1834

1835

1836

England. Dantsic.
s. d.

Memel. Hamburgh. Odessa.

S. d.

s. d.

s. d.

S. d.

49 2

51 4

48 5

48 2

49 7

40 6

48 2

48 5

48 2

51 10

36 0

45

undersold in his own market, when the price ranged between 50s. and 56s. he thought he was entitled to ask the Government to reconsider their measure, and-the committee having already sanctioned the principle of protection-to ask for that protection when the price should vary between 50s. and 56s. The consequences to be dreaded, when the price was under 50s. were not from any unusual competition from abroad, but from an abundant harvest at home; and, judging from past experience, it would appear that a maximum duty of 20s. was sufficient protection when the price was below 50s., but not when it was between 50s. and 56s. There was nothing more likely to discourage agriculture and the outlay of capital on land than for those engaged in it to find when expecting to receive a remunerating profit for their industry and labour, that they were undersold in the home market by the foreign competitor. He had stated 36 O that when the price was under 50s. the This was in favour, so far as it went, of maximum duty of 20s. would be a suffi- the proposal of her Majesty's Government cient protection, and to prove it he would but let him take the other six years, wher refer to a return which had been presented the lowest price in this country ranged to the House on the 30th of March, 1840, between 50s. and 56s.-50s. being the by the hon. Baronet who represented the lowest price, under all circumstances, and western division of the county of Corn- in the opinion of persons well informed wall, showing the highest and lowest on the subject, at which the agriculturists weekly averages in England compared with could afford to grow it. The following those of certain ports in Europe. He table would show what was the price of would take for example the lowest average foreign corn when in England the price of each successive year in England from ranged between 50s. and 56s.: 1829 to 1838, and set against it the lowest average in certain places on the continent. He would then add a certain sum for freight, and insurance and apply a maximum duty of 20s. when the price ranged under 50s. He would next apply the same test to those years in which the price ranged above 50s.; and so prove, when the price averaged from 50s. to 56s,, at least, that in almost every such instance the producer of corn in this country would have been undersold by foreigners in the home market. In four of those years, between 1829 and 1836, the average price in England was under 50s. as appeared from the following return, which also gave the lowest average prices at four European ports:

Now in legislating upon a matter of this

16 2 great importance, and upon which there 16 2 were so many conflicting opinions, he

He now proposed to add a sufficient thought that the safest way to proceed sum for freight and all other charges ex- I would be not to legislate on any specula

tive representations which might have! been derived either from persons engaged in the corn trade, or even from those gentlemen employed by the Government to ascertain the rate of continental prices. There was no doubt that Mr. Meek had conscientiously discharged his duty; but they should be very cautious in acting upon information so derived, lest, by so doing, they should give a blow to the agri culture of this country, which would have the effect of throwing out of cultivation a large portion of that poor description of soil upon which the greatest amount of capital and labour was expended-an expenditure let it be remarked, which was not to be recovered in the same manner as capital vested in manufactures. It was easy for those gentlemen who informed them that they owed no allegiance to the soil of England to pack up their mills and go to a foreign country: but capital vested in the soil could not be so withdrawn and vested elsewhere. The manufacturer, moreover, considered himself entitled to an enormous profit on his outlay of capital, while the agriculturist was contented with a very small amount of remuneration. Taking the whole of this part of the subject into consideration, he would entreat the committee to pause before they sanctioned a state of things which in his humble opinion must have the effect of throwing the poorer description of soil out of cultivation, and not only that, but possibly, by dealing a blow to the agricultural interest, inflict at the same time a serious injury also upon the manufactures of the country. He would now shortly test the scale of the right hon. Baronet in another way. He would refer to the consul's returns of continental prices during the six years from 1834 to 1839 inclusive. He took those years because they presented a pretty fair average as to seasons and prices, three of them being cheap years, one a year of moderate production, and the two others years of dearth. Taking the average prices at Riga, Konigsberg, Dantsic, and Odessa, and comparing them with the prices in England during the years he had mentioned, they would find the following results.

The average for those six years at Riga was 28s. 6d., whilst in England it was 53s. 9d. Looking at all the places he had referred to, the average for the six years was as follows:

from the Baltic, and 10s. from Odessa Now, adding to these amounts the 5s. from the Baltic, and 10s. from Odessa for freight, and the 18s. for duty, which would be taken when corn was at a less price than 54s., they would find that the prices of the different wheats when brought into this market would be;—

Whilst the price of English wheat would be 53s. 9d. Thus it was clear that the effect of the scale proposed by the Government would be to render the farmer liable to be undersold in his own market—not in years of scarcity, but in years when there was an abundance, and when, in fact, the British agriculturistsought to be competing with each other rather than with the foreign producers. The right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, fin the course of the speech in which he had opened this question to the House, had said, that looking at all the circumstances, he thought the farmers ought to be satisfied with from 54s. to 58s. as a remunerating price. Now, he felt confident that if this scale were adopted, the British producers would rarely receive 54s. Giving them all the advantages derivable from the scale-giving them every advantage derivable from the revision of the list of towns in which the averages were taken-he felt sure that they would nevertheless rarely get 54s. under the new law. He did not think that the additions to the list of towns in which the averages were struck would make any material difference in the price. The alterations might make some slight difference in favour of the farmer, but, upon the whole, he did not think they could make a difference of above 28. upon the price of the quarter of wheat. That he knew was the opinion of practical persons and of those who were engaged in the trade. Now, under such a state of things, he really could not but look to the probable operation of the Ministerial scale with considerable apprehension. It was all very well for hon. Gentlemen opposite to say that this was only a question of rent—