ought not now to be disturbed in that right, which was as clearly theirs as the right of the honourable and learned gentleman to anything he possess ed was his. He was also against the motion as a commencement of reform in Parliament. He, for one, thought the House of Commons, such as it was, sufficient for the government of the country. This was one of the greatest nations in the world. That House had carried it through good and through evil, through war and through peace, till at length the gentlemen opposite admitted that it was in a more prosperous situation than any other country.

Lord Binning also conceived, that the noble Lord and others who failed in their attempts at reform in a wholesale way, now sought to accomplish this object by proceeding piece-meal, well knowing, that if they succeeded in one case, it would be an argument for conceding all the rest. He was convinced that nothing would be so bad for Scotland as to interfere with the constitution of England. This would be done if the present motion were carried, as it would lead to consequences which would go to subvert the whole representation of the British empire. If he thought the representation of Scotland as bad as it had been said to be, which he did not, still he could not consent to change it at such risk. He did not mean to say, if a constitution were now to be granted, that it would enter into his head to give the constitution of Scotland to any country as a model of theoretical perfection. Were Scotland to be wholly separated from England, that case would be as different from the present as light was from dark, and then he would admit that important changes might be necessary. It was said that great care had been taken that the petitions presented on this subject should be signed by none whose houses were

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not rated at 51. It was most extraordinary that these popular leaders, these Whig patriots, should act thus, should place a man at the door where the petition lay for signature, to ask of those who came, "Is your house rated at 5l.," and when the answer given was, No, only at 4l. 10s. ;" then to tell the party, If that is the case, you may not petition!" After the efforts made to get the petition universally signed, he was surprised that not more than from 6000 to 7000 names had been gained out of 21,000. Many of these had, no doubt, signed twice; some had done it through wantonness; so that the House ought not to consider one-third of the householders to have petitioned; but if one-third of them had done so, that was no reason why the House should give way in a case like this. The House had not attended to petitions in England, some complaining that they were not represented, and others bewailing that they were so represented that they were worse off than if they had not been represented at all. Edinburgh had its member, but where were the members for Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, and Sheffield?

In opposition to these views, Lord J. Russell was of opinion, that to maintain that the people of Scotland had stipulated at the time of the Union, that 19 persons should have the right of returning a member to Parliament, without the concurrence and in despite of the 21,000 householders in Edinburgh, as their representative, was such an absurdity, that no man could believe them to have been capable of such conduct.

Mr Kennedy referred to the articles of Union to prove, that by those articles it was provided that the town of Edinburgh should be represented, without any mention being made of the corporation. He contended that there was no necessity to prove mal

versation on the part of the members of the corporation to warrant a change in the system. It was enough to shew that the city of Edinburgh was so altered in its circumstances, as every one knew it to be, since the birth of its present institutions.-Mr Abercromby finally congratulated himself, that in the course of the debate no one had had the hardihood to defend the system of Scotch representation. After what had passed that night, the people of Scotland would see what their condition was, when even in that House no one was to be found who would justify the system under which they lived. He ved in times when

things were called by their right names, and it was impossible to make it otherwise unless they could take away from the people the power of reading, and writing, and talking. Therefore, they would send out to the people of Edinburgh that night that it was the opinion of the House that they were here represented by 19 respected persons. This would sink deep into their minds, and be the cause of their coming back upon the House until they were ultimately successful in acquiring their just rights.

The motion was negatived only by the majority of 24, (99 to 75.)

IRELAND presented, as much as ever, an object of serious and painful contemplation; one on which it was impossible that Parliament should cease to direct its most intent and anxious regard. The disorganized counties. were still kept from breaking out into open violence, only by the severe operation of the insurrection act; factions in the capital and the great cities, raged with equal fury, and the remedies set in motion to mitigate the evils under which the country laboured, acted only slowly and imperceptibly. Although, however, Ireland could not but be a prominent object of discussion, its aspect was so very unchanged, and it had been so repeatedly surveyed, that it became extremely difficult either to say or do anything more on the subject. The general Catholic question, which had sunk last session in so remarkable a manner, was not

VOL. XVII. PART I.

revived during the present, which was spent chiefly in inquiries into the causes and nature of those evils which appeared to have taken such deep root, and had bid defiance to all the measures hitherto employed with a view to their mitigation or removal.

Lord Darnley, on the 8th April, brought all the questions connected with the state of Ireland into full and formal discussion. It was a remarkable spectacle, his lordship observed, to see this great country flourishing more than any other part of Europe, her manufactures in full activity, her agriculture reviving, her commerce embracing the world, her remotest dependencies sharing in her prosperity, the attention of her Parliament directed to improving the condition of slaves, and, at the same time, to behold her nearest and most important possession in a state of wretchedness

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and disorder. This hour of general prosperity to the rest of the empire, to which Ireland alone formed an exception, was the most advantageous time for taking an extended and statesmanlike view of her condition. Before he entered upon the subject, he was anxious to guard against the possibility of being thought hostile to the present government of Ireland. His lordship expressed the most favourable opinion of the system of government adopted by the noble marquis now at the head of Irish affairs, and admitted that much had been done by the Irish government in collateral measures, particularly in regard to tithes. He suspected, however, that the renewal of the insurrection act would be necessary, and contended that party animosities were at this moment higher than ever in Ireland. He did not complain of the noble earl opposite, or of his colleagues; they had only trod in the steps of their predecessors. Let their lordships refresh their memories by reading the history of Ireland, and they would see that the state of that country for six hundred years, presented nothing but oppression on the one hand, and suffering on the other. From Henry II. to George IV., from Earl Strongbow to the Marquis of Wellesley, but one system had been pursued, that of disunion. His lordship then strongly urged the importance of granting complete emancipation to the Catholics. Certainly much had been done by the present government to ameliorate the condition of Ireland, but it was to be feared that the measures hitherto adopted had not produced the effect which was expected from them, and that party spirit had rendered them abortive. This was not a new case in Ireland. A person who held the office of secretary in that country three hundred years ago, after wondering that no course was taken to establish a better govern

ment, had added, "but some say it is the fate and destiny of that land that no measure devised for the public good shall prosper." Nothing effectual could, he was convinced, be done for that country, unless the measure which he conceived to be the only foundation on which the peace of Ireland could rest, were adopted. He did not mean, however, to say, that Catholic emancipation would remove all the evils under which Ireland laboured, but it would lay the only basis for real pacification and improvement. The noble earl then took a view of the state of the church in Ireland, and of the disproportion which existed between its revenues and the duties it had to perform. He wished it to be clearly understood, that nothing which he said applied directly or indirectly to the church of Great Britain, where the splendour of the hierarchy and establishment was only consistent with the greatness of the country and the splendour of the monarchy. But in Ireland, where the proportion of Protestants was so small, that it amounted to scarcely half a million out of seven millions, the hierarchy consisted of no less than four archbishops and eighteen bishops, who positively possessed more wealth than the English clergy. His lordship recommended a reduction of this establishment, and a provision out of the funds for the education of the Catholic poor, and for the support of their clergy. He then alluded to the commission appointed at the suggestion of the other House, for inquiring into the state of education in Ireland. Much would depend on the manner in which that commission would be formed. The subject of education had been more or less attended to at various times by the Irish government, but unfortunately, every system of education introduced into that country had proceeded on a false ground. In the year 1733, schools had been

established for the Catholics; but the object being to make proselytes to the Protestant religion, the Catholics had set their faces against those institutions, which had thus produced more harm than good, by creating a spirit of opposition and of jealousy which it had been impossible since to eradicate. There was another kind of schools, the Diocesan Schools, established as early as the reign of Henry VIII., but they were few in number, and also deprived of the power of being useful by the idea still entertained by the Catholics, that it was meant, directly or indirectly, to make proselytes of their children. He was convinced that no beneficial effects would flow to any extent, from any system of education that would give cause to suspect that it might be intended as an instrument of proselytism, and he hoped and trusted that the commission would set out with the conviction that no system of education would prove effective, which did not steer clear of such a suspicion. His lordship then alluded to the circumstances which threw the peasantry of Ireland into a state of degradation; the too great subdivision of property; the almost exclusive use of potatoes, and the want of employment. He trusted that government would study to remove the latter evil, and so put a stop to the system too prevalent in Ireland, of allowing public works to be turned into private jobs. His lordship concluded by moving for a select committee to inquire into the result of the measures lately adopted in respect to Ireland, and into such other measures as might appear conducive to its happiness and welfare.

Lord Liverpool, before entering into the reasons which made him consider such a committee as inexpedient, wished to premise some general observations on the character of the Irish people. He had never visited Ireland, and was not, therefore, acquainted

with her localities; but in his private capacity, and his public situation, he had come into contact with large masses of the Irish people. He had seen the leading part which they took in all the branches of industry of this great metropolis, and in every town in the country. He had constantly and minutely looked into their conduct as mechanics and labourers, and he was able to say, that, whatever it might be in their own country, out of it there was not any people in the world more industrious, more honest, more kindly disposed, and more alive to a sense of obligation for kindness shown towards them. Whether he looked to the army, to the navy, or to every branch of useful industry, he saw not a more valuable race of men than the Irish upon the face of the earth. With respect to the policy adopted in former times towards Ireland, he admitted it to have been a policy of tyranny and oppression; and when tyranny and oppression were not exercised, he also admitted that the selfish and narrow principles which then disgraced our own statute-books, were applied to Ireland with an additional degree of intensity. Of late, however, he conceived that an opposite error had been committed, of extending to Ireland the privileges and institutions of Britain before she was ripe to receive them. He might appeal to the opinion of a noble baron who was no longer in the habit of attending the service of that House, "that there was no instance in the world of so many acts of beneficence for any country as for Ireland, during the late reign." Their lordships were not aware of the situation in which Ireland stood with respect to England. No country had ever done, from the beginning of the world, so much for a limb of its empire, as this country had done and sacrificed for Ireland. He should first look at the question of taxation. It