Now, do you have any statement you want to make about what Mr. Loevinger said about you in that memorandum to Mrs. Stern? Mr. VOGT. I think Loevinger was a little excited and used stronger terms that he should have. I do not deny that we had disagreements in the office, and which were all worked out. We were all new and we finally got those things adjusted, but he went pretty strong there and he must have been fairly excited about the matter when he was discussing it. The CHAIRMAN. That memorandum was from and to whom? Mr. TOLAND. From Mrs. Stern, assistant secretary of the Board, to the Chairman of the Board, last September. The CHAIRMAN. And this Loevinger Mr. TOLAND (interposing). Loevinger is regional attorney in the Milwaukee office. The CHAIRMAN. Is he still in the same position? Mr. MURDOCK. At that time what position did Mr. Vogt have? Mr. TOLAND (interposing). Under Mr. Wiener. Now, Mr. Vogt, have you been advised or do you know of any conversation between the members of the Board and Mr. Witt with respect to yourself being transferred to any other office, regional office of the Board? Mr. VOGT. No; not any conversation between the members of the Board and Witt. Mr. TOLAND. Did you have any conversation yourself with any members of the Board or Mr. Witt about your transfer? Mr. VOGT. Not that I recall. Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer in evidence a copy of a communication from Mr. Witt to Mr. Phillips, regional director of the ninth region, dated December 22, 1939, a personal and confidential communication from Mr. Phillips to Mr. Witt, dated December 27, 1939; and a copy, photostatic reproduction of a communication from Mr. Wiener to Mr. Witt, secretary of the Board, personal and confidential, dated December 28, 1939. Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Vogt, before we leave the exhibit there written. by Mrs. Stern.to the Board, did Chairman Madden, if you know, visit the Minneapolis office with reference to any differences of opinion or controversies existing there between the personnel? Mr. VOGT. Yes. Mr. TOLAND. How do you know? Mr. VOGT. Because I talked to him. Mr. TOLAND. When? Mr. VOGT. I don't know the exact date, but it was around in October, as I recall it. Mr. MURDOCK. Of what year? Mr. VOGT. 1939. Mr. MURDOCK. What was the result of that visit? Mr. VOGT. Well, Mr. Madden had a conference with all of us first and then he had individual conferences, and at that time we discussed any problems that we might have had, and for my part I told him that things were working out O. K. now; that they were all getting along fine, and there was no animosity between any parties. Mr. TOLAND. Was his visit the result of this letter and calling to his attention of certain controversies or differences of opinion in the office? Mr. VOGT. I can't say exactly as to that, but I imagine it was because it was in October. Mr. TOLAND. Subsequent to this letter? Was the visit made subsequent to the letter? Mr. VOGT. Yes; this letter was September 19 and I recall that Mr. Wiener wired me while I was in Iowa, Chairman Madden was coming; would I please come into the office. Mr. TOLAND. And as a result-did his visit, so far as you were able to observe, help to iron out differences and straighten out any controversies between personnel or members of the personnel? Mr. VOGT. I think the things were straightened out, but I think they improved on top of that a great deal. I don't see how an office could run better now; I mean with people in the office. Mr. TOLAND. Did Mr. Madden make any statements to you that are contained in that memorandum? Mr. VOGT. I don't recall Mr. Madden making any statements in regards to that memorandum, no. Mr. TOLAND. Did he take up with you personally any criticism or any statement being made that you kept Mr. Wiener out of Iowa! Did he question you about that? Mr. VOGT. I think he got around that probably by asking me what our procedure was. Mr. TOLAND. I would like to offer these exhibits which I have heretofore described, all separate exhibits. (Copy of letter from Mr. Witt to Regional Director Phillips, dated December 22, 1939, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1364" and follows.) (Interoffice communication from Phillips to Mr. Witt, dated December 27, 1939, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1365" and follows.) (Letter from Regional Director Wiener to Mr. Witt, dated December 28, 1939, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1366" and follows.) Mr. TOLAND. Committee's Exhibit 1304 being copy of letter from Mr. Witt to Regional Director Phillips, dated December 22, 1939 (reading): You recall the discussion concerning Vogt at the Board meeting which you attended the other day. I am sending you herewith copy of self-explanatory memorandum to Regional Director Wiener under today's date. I will advise you further when we hear from Wiener. Signed with the initials "N. W." Exhibit 1365, committee's interoffice communication from Phillips to Mr. Witt, dated December 27, 1939 (reading): This will acknowledge your letter of December 22 with reference to Herbert Vogt. I am sorry I did not get an opportunity to talk with you about him and would appreciate it if you could send me the dope about him which you promised to take up with me. The House hearing has caused us some problems and I am wondering whether the action which Vogt took could in any way be related to things of a nature which they have accused us of doing. In any event you know I am always glad to help you whenever I can. Signed, "Philip G. Phillips." The Exhibit 1366 of the committee, from Regional Director Wiener to Mr. Witt, dated December 28, is as follows (reading): This is in reply to your memorandum asking my opinion of the Board's proposal to transfer Mr. Vogt from this office to Cincinnati. My opinion is that the transfer should not be made. My reasons follow below. In the first place, you may recall that last August— and above that is written the word "July" in pencil I the Board considered transferring Mr. Vogt from this office to Chicago. would like to incorporate the memorandum I wrote you at that time as a part of this reply. Next, I would like to say that I have every reason to believe that Mr. Vogt himself is opposed to transferring to some other region, and I think this is an important, although, of course, not a controlling, reason. I suppose that part of the Board's motive in proposing this transfer are the complaints which from time to time have been brought to the Board's attention. Other than those concerning which you have asked me for reports, I have myself received no complaints from anyone in recent months as to Mr. Vogt's work. I would like to say that I believe he is now conducting himself, and will so conduct himself that complaints should not be forthcoming in the future. In my opinion Mr. Vogt's work has steadily and appreciably improved in the year and a half he has been in this office. Although there is the usual variation, his case load is high, and recently it has totaled the combined case load of Mr. Shields and myself. Furthermore, Vogt spends mostly all of his time in the field-more so than could be expected from either a married or inexperienced field examiner. For this reason, as well as those outlined in the memorandum to which I referred above, I explained to the chairman when he was here in September that if Vogt were transferred from this region, I think it would require two field examiners to replace him, unless you have available for transfer to this office a man of both equal ability and equal devotion to the job. There is a very good working relationship between the staff members in this office. I would not like to see this disturbed. Some other field examiner might work in just as harmoniously, but since I understand a change is also contemplated in our staff attorney in the immediate future, an additional and perhaps difficult adjustment might be called for. At present the Board itself is under a good deal of fire. We know that Vogt is doing a good job in the State of Iowa. Without a trial, we could not be sure that someone else would do as well. Indeed, Mr. Vogt is so warmly regarded by most of the unions in the State, that as I also explained to the chairman in September, I believe any successor would have a difficult job at best for some months. I don't think we should risk the possibility of criticism at this time. As I understand it, one of the principal reasons for transferring Vogt to this office in the first place was his familiarity with the work in the State of Iowa. I think that reason is still valid and an excellent one for retaining him in his present situation. Finally, because it is a temporary reason, I am myself going to be away on leave during the month of January and believe it is most important that Vogt's heavy case load be not transferred to anyone else in my absence. In conclusion, I would again ask that the Board permit Mr. Vogt to remain in this region. There is an attached pink memorandum bearing the initials "J. Warren Madden," "Edwin S. Smith," and "William M. Leiserson," dated December 29. Now, Mr. Vogt, is that a fact that the Department of Justice and Bureau of Investigation conducted an investigation into your activities in the State of Iowa? Mr. VOGT. I don't know that that is a fact; I have heard rumors. Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Chairman, I offer in evidence a communication dated-from John Edgar Hoover, from the Bureau of Investigation, to Mr. Madden, chairman of the Board, bearing the initials of Mr. Madden-dated November 28, 1939, with an attached pink_memo of November 29, 1939, bearing the initials of Mr. Smith, Dr. Leiserson, Mr. Madden, and the name "Witt." (Letter from John Edgar Hoover to J. Warren Madden, dated November 28, 1939, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1367," and follows.) Mr. TOLAND. The communication reads: DEAR MR. MADDEN: The Des Moines, Iowa, field division of this Bureau is in receipt of information furnished by Mr. R. W. Nebergall, Chief, Bureau of Investigation, State House, Des Moines, Iowa, relative to one Herbert J. Vogt, who is believed to be a field examiner for the National Labor Relations Board, with offices at 401 New Post Office Building, Minneapolis, Minnesota. Vogt is alleged to have been traveling over the State of Iowa, making speeches in behalf of a pardon for one Archie Carter, former union labor newspaper publisher of Dubuque, Iowa, who is presently serving a five-year sentence in the Iowa State Penitentiary at Fort Madison, Iowa, on a conviction of sodomy at Dubuque, Iowa. It is further stated that Vogt make a talk in Keokuk, Iowa, about six weeks ago before a Trades and Labor Assembly, for the specific purpose of soliciting funds for the defense of Carter. Mr. Nebergall advised that certain law enforcement officers in the State of Iowa were desirous of ascertaining if Vogt is an employee of the National Labor Relations Board, and if it comes under his duties as such to solicit funds under these conditions. The above information was furnished to this Bureau by Mr. Nebergall for transmittal to the appropriate authorities, and is being forwarded to you for whatever action you care to take. Sincerely yours, J. Edgar Hoover. The pink memorandum is attached thereto. I have a copy of a letter acknowledging receipt of the communication heretofore read, dated December 1, 1939, from the Chairman of the Board to Mr. Hoover, which I would like to offer in evidence. (Letter dated December 1, 1939, to John Edgar Hoover from Chairman of the National Labor Relations Board, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1368," and follows.) Mr. MURDOCK. What was your comment, Mr. Vogt? Mr. VOGT. I was asking Mr. Toland whether he had the letters from the union officials in Keokuk, Trades and Labor Assembly, that they wrote stating about the remarks that I was supposed to have made at the Keokuk Trades and Labor Mr. TOLAND (interposing). They will go in; we haven't read them. DEAR MR. HOOVER: This will acknowledge your letter of November 28, 1939, concerning the alleged activity of Mr. Vogt in making speeches in the State of Iowa in behalf of a pardon for one Archie Carter. The Board is looking into this matter immediately. Sincerely yours, Then I have a copy of a communication from Mr. Witt, to Mr. Wiener, dated December 1, marked "personal and confidential." I am sending you herewith copy of letter from J. Edgar Hoover, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation, to Chairman Madden dated November 28, and copy of the Chairman's reply under today's date, both of which are selfexplanatory. Please look into this matter immediately and carefully, and send me a report concerning it. We assume that if Vogt has been engaged in the activity as alleged, it has been when he has been traveling in Iowa in connection with Board business. Please be sure to advise me whether this is so. I offer this in evidence. (Letter dated December 1, 1939, to Robert J. Wiener from Nathan Witt, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1369," and appears above.) Mr. TOLAND. I have a copy of a report from Mr. Vogt to Mr. Wiener marked "Confidential," dated December 5, 1939, and I ask you if that isn't a report that you prepared as a result of the communications that I have heretofore introduced? I offer in evidence the document identified by the witness. (Report from Mr. Vogt to Mr. Wiener, dated December 5, 1939, was received in evidence, marked "Exhibit No. 1370," and follows.) Mr. MURDOCK. Now, is this the report of-whom? Mr. TOLAND. Of the witness, as a result of this inquiry. Isn't that right? Mr. VoGT. Yes. There were also some letters from the union officials. Mr. TOLAND. Attached to the report was a communication from Mr. Wiener, the director, to Mr. Witt, dated December 8, together with a pink memorandum bearing the initials of all the members of the Board, and the following statement: "I will put this on the agenda." I offer that in evidence. Exhibit 1370 of the Committee, being the report of the witness dated December 5, 1939, reads as follows: Your memorandum of December 4 and enclosures thereto. Reading over John Edgar Hoover's, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, letter of November 28; Mr. Nathan Witt's memorandum to you of December 1; and your memorandum of December 4, I wish to state that I deny, generally, specifically and particularly the intimation that I have been traveling all over the State of Iowa on Board time making speeches in behalf of the party of one, Archie Carter, former Union Labor Newspaper Publisher of Dubuque, Iowa, who is presently serving a five year sentence in the Iowa State Penitentiary in Fort Madison on a conviction of sodomy. I believe, however, I can explain how this misunderstanding may have arisen. On or about October 9, 1939, when I went to Keokuk, Iowa to negotiate a consent election agreement regarding the rubber industries of the Dryden Rubber Company, I met with the company and union officials in the morning and the company's local official thought it was best that we send a special-delivery, airmail letter to the company's headquarters in Chicago and have them approve the stipulation that I had drawn for both parties to sign. That necessitated that I wait all afternoon and part of the following morning for a reply from the company. In order to not waste any time for the Board, I decided that this gave me a good opportunity to go to Fort Madison, which is approximately forty-five miles from Keokuk, to visit Archie Carter and gain some information from him of a case that he handled in Clinton, Iowa. That particular case, as you will recall, was the Volckmann Furniture Manufacturing Company. During the interim of investigation of that case Carter's appeal bond expired and he was taken back to Fort Madison. Since I did not have the opportunity to see him to obtain the most recent information it necessitated a trip to Fort Madison. For that reason I went to Fort Madison to discuss further details with him as to the union's position in that case in order that I might consummate a settlement. At the end of the interview with him I made this remark: "In case I sent you a carton of cigarettes, Archie, here at the prison would you get it?" Carter then said: "Well Vogt I don't want you to feel that I am not appreciative of your kind thoughts, but rather than getting cigarettes I would appreciate getting money because here at the prison none of the prisoners get any seasoning in their food such as salt, pepper or the like, or cream for their coffee, or butter for their bread unless they purchase that from their own 218054-40-vol. 23-7 |