NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS ACT TUESDAY, APRIL 30, 1940 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE Washington, D. C. The committee met at 10:10 a. m., pursuant to adjournment on Monday, April 29, 1940, in room 362 of the Old House Office Building, Representative Howard W. Smith, chairman, presiding. Present: Representatives Howard W. Smith of Virginia, Arthur D. Healey of Massachusetts, and Harry N. Routzohn of Ohio. Edmund F. Toland, general counsel to the committee. Charles Fahy, general counsel to the National Labor Relations Board. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. TESTIMONY OF MAPES DAVIDSON, FORMER TRIAL EXAMINER, NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD-Recalled Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Davidson is being recalled at the request of Mr. Healey. Mr. HEALEY. Mr. Davidson, was it in January that you were here last? Mr. DAVIDSON. It was January 16, Congressman. Mr. HEALEY. And at that time you were summoned by counsel for the committee to appear here? Mr. DAVIDSON. That is correct. Mr. HEALEY. Did you have any conference with counsel for the committee prior to your testifying here in January? Mr. DAVIDSON. No, sir. Mr. HEALEY. And you, of course, had no idea as to the purpose of your being here at that time, did you? Mr. DAVIDSON. Well, I saw statements in the papers credited to some members of the committee that some employees of the Board would be questioned concerning seeming irregularities, letters that they had written. Of course I knew that I had written letters in the course of my employment. Mr. HEALEY. Did you realize at that time that you would be questioned concerning your work as a trial examiner? Mr. DAVIDSON. I assumed it, Congressman, otherwise there would have been no purpose in calling me. Mr. HEALEY. And did you have an opportunity to go over some of your records as trial examiner before you testified? Mr. DAVIDSON. Yes; in a cursory degree, but not in detail, Congressman. Mr. HEALEY. Yes. Now, at that time you gave the committee the benefit of all of the knowledge and information regarding so much of your work as was the subject of interrogation by counsel for the committee or members of the committee? Mr. DAVIDSON. I answered whatever questions were asked of me, sir, but I volunteered nothing. Mr. HEALEY. You testified under oath? Mr. DAVIDSON. Yes, sir. Mr. HEALEY. And you testified the truth of the matters that you were interrogated about? Mr. DAVIDSON. As far as I understood the truth to be; yes, sir. Mr. HEALEY. Since that time you have resigned, or been separated from the service? Mr. DAVIDSON. That is correct, sir. I contend that I resigned. Mr. HEALEY. You maintain that you resigned; someone else maintains you were separated from the service. But after you resigned you were summoned by counsel for this committee to come here to Washington and testify further? Mr. DAVIDSON. I was, sir. Mr. HEALEY. And previous to your coming here and taking the witness stand you conferred with counsel for the committee? Mr. DAVIDSON. Mr. Toland in his office asked me to tell him in as much detail as I could recall everything I had done from the time that I testified here on January 16 until the date of my resignation or sepa ration, as you may choose to call it. I did so. Mr. HEALEY. And also about matters that had occurred before that time, before the interim of your separation from the service, and the time you came here? Or was it the interim of your testimony after the time of your resigning? Mr. DAVIDSON. I don't think I quite get the question. (The reporter read the previous question.) Mr. DAVIDSON. Other matters were discussed, sir, after, by myself, after I had told Mr. Toland what he wanted to know. Mr. HEALEY. Well, of course, you testified here when you were here last week. Mr. DAVIDSON. Yes, sir. Mr. HEALEY. About matters that had occurred during the time you were employed by the Board as a trial examiner? Mr. DAVIDSON. That's right. Mr. HEALEY. Now, when you were here in your regular testimony, did it occur to you that you ought to tell the committee then about those matters? Mr. DAVIDSON. No, sir. It occurred to me that I should answer the questions that were asked of me. Mr. HEALEY. And that is all you did? Mr. DAVIDSON. That is all I did. The record shows that I volunteered nothing. Mr. HEALEY. Well, you had an opportunity, did you not, at that time? Mr. DAVIDSON. I didn't consider it so, sir. I was summoned for interrogation by this committee. Mr. HEALEY. Wait until I finish the question. Mr. DAVIDSON. Pardon me, sir. I thought you had. Mr. HEALEY. You were on the witness stand at that time, and you understood, did you not, that you were here to try to assist this committee? Mr. DAVIDSON. I understood that I was here to answer such questions as might be propounded to me, and nothing else. Mr. HEALEY. Did it occur to you that you were here to assist this committee in the inquiry it was conducting into the administration of this act? Mr. DAVIDSON. I didn't view it that I was here to assist the committee; no, sir. I viewed it that I was here to answer the committee's questions, whether or not it assisted. Mr. HEALEY. You knew the purpose of the inquiry of this committee? Mr. DAVIDSON. Yes, sir. Mr. HEALEY. Had you read its resolution? Mr. DAVIDSON. No, sir. Mr. HEALEY. The resolution of Congress? Mr. HEALEY. But you did have an idea of the purpose of the inquiry, did you not? Mr. DAVIDSON. I knew that you were investigating the Labor Board; yes. Mr. HEALEY. And if there were any irregularities concerning your work as an employee of the Board, certainly the committee wanted to know about them. You knew that, didn't you? Mr. DAVIDSON. I did not, sir. I answered whatever questions were asked me, and if I had volunteered anything further in the nature of irregularities, I assumed that I wouldn't be working for that Board long, and at that time, I wanted to work for it. Mr. HEALEY. Well, Mr. Witness, of course you had an idea that we were interested to know all that we could find out from witnesses about the administration of this act, the method that it conducted hearings, and anything else concerning the administration of the act by this Board? Mr. DAVIDSON. Not in the way you put, sir; no. I understood that you would ask me what you wanted to know. Mr. HEALEY. In other words, you came here with the set purpose of only answering the questions that were propounded to you by counsel for the committee or members of this committee. Mr. DAVIDSON. Certainly. I thought that was my duty on the premises, and in any event, Congressman, I couldn't tell you about the Saposs lecture because it had not yet been given. Mr. HEALEY. Of course, it isn't necessary to add that. I thought the subject of my whole inquiry has been about matters that occurred prior to the time that you were separated from the service, about which you testified to when you were here last week. I thought I made that plain to you. Mr. DAVIDSON. Well, I wanted to make my position plain, too, Congressman. Mr. TOLAND. I'd like to say that if I had any idea about the incidents other than the separation of Mr. Davidson that he testified to last week, I most certainly would have inquired about them when he was here on the 16th day of January. Mr. HEALEY. I don't doubt that, Mr. Toland. Mr. TOLAND. The witness answered every question fully and frankly concerning the letters that I offered in evidence that he had written to the chief trial examiner. Mr. HEALEY. But he confined his testimony to those matters. Mr. TOLAND. I didn't ask him anything else because he didn't know anything else. Mr. HEALEY. But it didn't occur to him that he ought to volunteer this other information which he has since given to you. Mr. DAVIDSON. Congressman Healey, from a long experience in courtrooms, it is my knowledge that a witness is called to answer questions and not to make speeches. Mr. HEALEY. Well, I think that Mr. DAVIDSON (interposing). Nor to volunteer. Mr. HEALEY. All right. Now, Mr. Davidson, when you testified previously in January, before the committee, you wrote several letters or memoranda, which indicated to me, at least, that you were very unhappy when your assignments as trial examiner took you to places like Texas and the west coast. Is that correct? Mr. DAVIDSON. Part of the time; yes. I don't think anybody likes to be away from home for great periods. Mr. HEALEY. Well, now, as a matter of fact, when you resigned, you made the statement that you had a grievance because you were assigned to places outside of your home State, did you not? Mr. DAVIDSON. When I resigned I made such a statement? Mr. HEALEY. Yes. Did you make such a statement to any newspaper? Mr. DAVIDSON. No; I didn't say that I had a grievance. I remember one reporter-I think he was from the Herald Tribune-asked me if I liked to travel, and I think I asked him what the meaning of his question was, and he said he thought some of my letters indicated that I didn't. Mr. HEALEY. Well, now, as a matter of fact Mr. DAVIDSON (interposing). If you have any interviews, sir, and you will present them to me, I will either identify them as being correct or incorrect. Mr. HEALEY. My friend, I don't intend to inquire about interviews without first letting you have the fullest opportunity to identify them, or any statements that you have made, and have the benefit of having those documents in front of you. The item I am inquiring about is a press report, one in the Bulletin, of Philadelphia, and the other in the Herald Tribune, of New York City, in which you are alleged to have stated that you never did like to travel, that your heart was always in Orange, and you regarded it as the most beautiful community in the world. Mr. DAVIDSON. That statement is substantially correct, but not word for word. Mr. HEALEY. They say, further on in this interview (reading): Once they sent me to a little town in Texas. There was a plague of grasshoppers or locusts or something. You couldn't walk down the street without stepping on some. They got into the hotels. They chirped so loud I couldn't sleep. Another time they ordered me to Coquille, Washington. Mr. DAVIDSON. That should be Oregon, sir, if it reads "Washington." Mr. HEALEY. "Washington," it says here. (Continues reading:) I was three days on a train without a bath. When I got to Coquille I was like a caged bear. You couldn't walk three blocks in any direction in that town without getting into the woods. Did you make those statements. Mr. DAVIDSON. You should separate your question, sir. Mr. HEALEY. My question to you now is, did you make the statements that are attributed to you? Mr. DAVIDSON. If I answer "No" it won't be the exact truth and if I say "Yes" it won't be the exact truth. Mr. HEALEY. Tell us how much you did make of those statements. Mr. DAVIDSON. I never made any mention of going to a little town. in Texas where there was a plague of grasshoppers. The town where I had that experience was Dallas. I had been somewhere else before going to Dallas, and there was no plague of grasshoppers or a plague of any other kind there so far as I could see. Mr. HEALEY. So you didn't make that part of the statement. Mr. HEALEY. And, of course, Dallas is not a small town. Mr. DAVIDSON. It is a very big city, sir, and there are some very fine people there. Mr. HEALEY. After you resigned, or after your work was terminated with the Board, did you, in an interview with a reporter for the Journal-American of New York City, say (reading): If subpoenaed I stand ready to go to Washington to tell all I know about the Board's Stalinese-Moscow methods and arbitrary bias and arrogance. Did you make that statement? Mr. DAVIDSON. I made that portion of the statement which quotes me that I stood ready to go to Washington, but I didn't say that I stood ready to come down here and tell "all" about the Board's methods because I don't know all about them. Mr. HEALEY. And then later on you made the statement that your letter of resignation spoke for itself, and that you didn't contemplate doing anything further. Did you make that statement? Mr. DAVIDSON. That is right, sir. Mr. HEALEY. And you Mr. DAVIDSON (interposing). And I might add, Congressman Healey, that I didn't come voluntarily to Washington, I was sent for. Mr. HEALEY. All right. Now, you were on pretty good terms with Mr. Pratt, who was the chief trial examiner, were you not? Mr. DAVIDSON. I always found him to be a reasonable, kindly boss; yes, sir. Mr. HEALEY. And as I recollect, didn't you say some words of praise in your statement concerning Mr. Pratt? Mr. DAVIDSON. What statement do you refer to, sir? Mr. HEALEY. In your statement that you wrote, of the letter that you wrote to the Board, your letter of resignation, did you refer to Mr. Pratt in that letter? Mr. DAVIDSON. As I recall, I didn't mention Mr. Pratt's name. Mr. HEALEY. In any other statement did you refer to Mr. Pratt as being a very good employee of the Board? Mr. DAVIDSON. I don't recall, sir, mentioning Mr. Pratt's name in any of the three letters I wrote, either to the Board, to Mr. Madden and Mr. Smith, or to Mr. Madden in the third place. |