C. I. O. they will go on strike and they won't ask me to go out," the very men that are backing them. There were perhaps 10 near Grand Rapids. They wouldn't even think of going out. They didn't even suggest it. They were right down to work early. That is the reason why those men entered it. They thought they got something once. They struck, and the result is there are 17 men under indictment that certainly don't deserve it, but they stuck their necks out. Mr. HEALEY. That is all. (The witness was excused.) Mr. TOLAND. Mr. Chairman, I have three other witnesses, employees of the same company, and I would like to call all three of them, have them sworn, and ask if they will adopt the testimony of the other witness, as far as the facts are concerned from their own knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. TOLAND. Will you three gentlemen be sworn? Mr. TOLAND. All right. TESTIMONY OF CLIFFORD ALLEN, AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CONSUMERS POWER CO., IONIA, MICH. (The witness was duly sworn and testified as follows:) Mr. TOLAND. Will you give your name to the reporter? Mr. ALLEN. Clifford Allen. Mr. TOLAND. Where do you reside, Mr. Allen? Mr. ALLEN. Ionia, Mich. Mr. TOLAND. Where are you employed? Mr. ALLEN. Consumers Power Co. Mr. TOLAND. Are you a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, affiliated with the American Federation of Labor? Mr. ALLEN. I am. Mr. TOLAND. How long have you been a member of this organiza tion? Mr. ALLEN. I think 2 years in April, this coming April. Mr. TOLAND. Have you ever been a member of the C. I. O. or any organization affiliated with the C. I. O.? Mr. ALLEN. I have. Mr. TOLAND. When was that, and where? Mr. ALLEN. I don't think I can give you the date. It was before the first strike. I resigned or quit before the first strike took place. Mr. TOLAND. And since that time you have been a member of the American Federation of Labor organization? Mr. ALLEN. Not entirely. I would say it must have been about 4 or 5 months that elapsed in between. Mr. TOLAND. You have been present, have you not, while Mr. Gill testified? Mr. ALLEN. I have. Mr. TOLAND. Are you willing to adopt his testimony insofar as he has stated facts within your own knowledge? Mr. ALLEN. I would. Mr. TOLAND. Is there any statement that you would like to make of your own to the committee concerning your connection with the A. F. of L. organization, and the action of the Board in preventing your organization from being permitted to vote at the run-off election? Mr. ALLEN. I feel practically the same as Mr. Gill did about that, although I do understand-I haven't proof, but I think the committee can find that proof-that there have been elections held where the run-off elections, the two high parties were taken in the run-off election. I think one of those cases was somewhere in Louisiana. Mr. MURDOCK. Could you give us that? Mr. ALLEN. I couldn't give you any information on it, but I have read that, or I understand maybe more than the one. I am pretty positive of one. Mr. TOLAND. Any questions from the committee? The CHAIRMAN. You may be excused. (The witness was excused.) TESTIMONY OF LESLIE RICE, LINEMAN, CONSUMERS POWER CO., LANSING, MICH. (The witness was duly sworn and testified as follows:) Mr. TOLAND. Will you give your name to the reporter, please? Mr. TOLAND. Where do you reside? Mr. RICE. Lansing, Mich. Mr. TOLAND. What is your present occupation? Mr. RICE. I am a lineman. Mr. TOLAND. With what company? Mr. RICE. Consumers Power Co. Mr. TOLAND. Are you a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers affiliated with the American Federation of Labor? Mr. RICE. I am. Mr. TOLAND. How long have you been a member of that organization? Mr. RICE. Approximately 2 years. Mr. TOLAND. Were you present during the time that Mr. Gill testified? Mr. RICE. I was. Mr. TOLAND. Are you willing to adopt his testimony as to facts within your own knowledge and as to the expressions of opinion of Mr. Gill concerning the organization of which you are a member, with regard to the action of the Board in the run-off election? Mr. RICE. Yes. Mr. TOLAND. Do you have any statement of your own you would like to make to the committee? Mr. RICE. Not very much. I would like to say that I don't think, unless there is an election between these two rival labor organizations, we shall have any peace on the property, so it will be constantly in a turmoil, argument pro and con, and trouble. That is all I have to say. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Mr. TOLAND. That is all. (The witness was excused.) TESTIMONY OF THOMAS BYLE, AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CONSUMERS POWER CO., GRAND RAPIDS, MICH. (The witness was duly sworn and testified as follows:) Mr. TOLAND. Will you give the reporter your full name? Mr. BYLE. Thomas Byle. Mr. TOLAND. Where do you reside, Mr. Byle? Mr. BYLE. Grand Rapids, Mich. Mr. TOLAND. Where are you employed? Mr. BYLE. Consumers Power Co. Mr. TOLAND. How long have you been an employee of that company? Mr. BYLE. Since May 10, 1926. Mr. TOLAND. Are you a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, affiliated with the American Federation of Labor? Mr. BYLE. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Were you present this morning when Mr. Gill testified? Mr. BYLE. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Are you willing to adopt his testimony as to facts stated by him, within your own knowledge, and adopt his opinions on behalf of your organization, with respect to the action of the Board in the run-off election held at the Consumers Power Co.? Mr. BYLE. Yes, sir. Mr. TOLAND. Have you any statement you wish to make to the committee? Mr. BYLE. There is just one statement I would like to make. It seems awful queer that after we petitioned the National Labor Relations Board for an election it was necessary for us to go down and show cause why our names should be on the ballot of an election held on the property. That seemed to me more or less prejudice against us. We petitioned for the election and then had to show cause why we should be on the ballot. That is all I have to say. Mr. HEALEY. Does that have reference to the run-off? Mr. BYLE. No, sir; that was the first election. Mr. HALLECK. Had there ever been an election before that? Mr. BYLE. No, sir. Mr. HALLECK. No labor organization certified? Mr. BYLE. The C. I. O. had certification. Mr. HALLECK. They had been certified but no election? Mr. BYLE. They hadn't been certified; they had a signed contract. Mr. HALLECK. Had the Board ever certified the C. I. O.? Mr. BYLE. No. Mr. HALLECK. Yours was the first petition? Mr. BYLE. Ours was the first petition. Mr. HEALEY. Mr. Byle, are you definitely certain that before the original election it was necessary for you to show cause why the A. F. of L. union should appear on the ballot? Mr. BYLE. Yes; I was at the hearing. The hearing was held in Detroit, Mich., on April 28 and 29. Mr. HEALEY. Before the original election? Mr. BYLE. Before the original election. Mr. TOLAND. Do you want to make any comment along that line, on the action of any employee of the Board at that hearing? Mr. BYLE. I might say that at that hearing it was my understanding that the attorney for the Labor Board was not there as an examiner. Mr. Dudley was the examiner, and this particular attorney kept jumping up, and when the C. I. O. attorney couldn't think of anything to say he put the words into their mouths. It was more or less helping him along. I went down there as a witness to testify why we should be on the ballot, but it wasn't necessary for me to testify because even the examiner could see that we were entitled to be on the ballot, and it was stipulated that we would be on the ballot. Mr. HEALEY. You don't know, do you, that a hearing is required under the statute before these elections are held? Mr. BYLE. No: I don't. Mr. HEALEY. Mr. Chairman, to establish that fact, I would like to ask Mr. Fahy if he won't inform the committee whether or not such procedure is necessary? Mr. TOLAND. Ask him also if they haven't certified without hearings. Mr. HEALEY. I would like to ask him to make that statement. Whenever a question affecting commerce arises concerning the representation of employees, the Board may investigate such controversy and certify to the parties, in writing, the name or names of the representatives that have been designated or selected. In any such investigation the Board shall provide for an appropriate hearing upon due notice and so forth. I assume the hearing you are referring to is that hearing. Mr. ROUTZOHN. You don't mean that makes it mandatory on the part of the Board to have a hearing in every instance, do you? Mr. FAHY. Yes; we have so construed the statute unless there is consent. Mr. ROUTZOHN. It says "may." Mr. FAHY. It says "The Board shall provide.” Mr. ROUTZOHN. Before that. Mr. FAHY (reading): may investigate such controversy and certify to the parties, in writing, the name or names of the representatives that have been designated or selected. In any such investigation, the Board shall provide for an appropriate hearing upon due notice. Mr. HALLECK. Have you certified some without hearing, Mr. Fahy? Mr. FAHY. No. Mr. HALLECK. Couldn't you under the provision by which it says that you can determine by election or by any other suitable means? Mr. FAHY. After the hearing. Mr. HALLECK. But never before the hearing? Mr. FAHY. Never before the hearing. Of course, we hold many consent elections where the hearing is not held. Mr. TOLAND. You have consent certification. Mr. FAHY. Not formal certification under the act. We have the certification as to who won the election, but not statute certification. I think by appropriate waiver of the right of hearing certification might be possible. We are working on that now. It has not been done. Mr. TOLAND. I am through, Mr. Chairman. (The witness was excused.) Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, there is one observation I would like to make, and that is this: Counsel made the statement that all witnesses called are witnesses of the committee. I don't think that there is any question about that. He tells them to be here, whether they come from the Board or any other place. He says they are witnesses called by this committee, but I also want to state that our counsel has been given, as I understand it, the widest latitude in the selection of witnesses, and I would further like to suggest at this time that it occurs to me that where you have, as we have in this case, 1,164 men belonging to C. I. O. and 1,072 belonging to A. F. of L., that where we call witnesses from one organization, in order to get the full picture, witnesses should also be caalled from the other organization. Mr. TOLAND. I will be glad to call them. The CHAIRMAN. For a few minutes the committee wants to discuss the matter. (Off-the-record discussion by the committee.) The CHAIRMAN. The committee will stand adjourned until next Wednesday at 10 o'clock. (Whereupon, at 1:05 p. m., an adjournment was taken until Wednesday, February 28, 1940, at 10 a. m.) |