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positively affirm, that there never was, perhaps, a set of people in any part of the world more anxious to receive instruction, or more grateful to those by whom it was imparted. That circumstance alone ought to induce government to make every exertion in favour of those efforts which were directed to the amelioration of the people of India; and from which, as his right honourable friend had observed, the most beneficial consequences might naturally be expected.

Mr. Hume wished to know how far the motion of his honourable friend extended? Because, if it did not comprise the regulations of 1792, 1793, and 1794, it would be defective. He had lived at Benares, where the Brahmins had their college, and which indeed might be considered the cradle of all their absurdities; and there, he believed, the regulations had produced a good effect. The honourable member for Bramber had spoken of a woman having been forcibly tied to a log. Now, his belief was, that under the regulations of governor Donkin, it was absolutely necessary to inquire of every person about to be immolated, whether it was a voluntary act done in conformity with the Hindoo law. No individual was allowed to be burnt in Benares, unless the regulations of the government were complied with. He was pretty sure that the instance alluded to by the honourable member for Bramber had not occurred in the company's territories; but what might have taken place under the Mahratta govern ment, he could not tell. He doubted very much the correctness of the observation made by

the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Bathurst) when he said that this was not a proper subject for the consideration of parliament. It was most extraordinary that a member of his majesty's government who had voted for a bill to prevent cruelty being exercised towards "asses and mules," should think it improper to prevent the infliction of cruelty, (for cruelty it was in all cases) on the females of India. His opinion was, that the individuals burned with their husbands, were, in almost all cases, sacrificed to the interest of those who were connected with them. If it were rendered necessary to take out a regalar license, at an expence of 2 or 3,000 rupees for the privilege to burn, the evil would be very much diminished. Though this, at first sight, appeared ludicrous, yet the benefit which such a system would produce could easily be explained. If a large sum were demanded for a license, the relatives of widows, who now urged them to burn, would not supply a rupee towards the expense, and the widows would thus escape death. With respect to the plan of building a college at Calcutta for the education of missionaries, he was convinced that it would produce more mischief than a positive law for inflicting punishment on all who aided and abetted at the sacrifice of a female. He hoped the practice would ultimately be done away, but it would require a very considerable time. If the British government had equal power over all the Hindoo states, it might soon be removed; but, while some Hindoo governments existed over which they had no power, and by which the

practice

practice was tolerated, it could not be eradicated.

Lord Binning said, that the honourable member for Aberdeen had completely misunderstood what fell from his right honourable friend (Mr. Bathurst.) His right honourable friend did not state that this was an improper subject to bring under the consideration of parliament. It was impossible for him to have asserted that a question connected with the happiness of so large a number of human beings was not fit for their consideration. What his right honourable friend had said, was rather addressed to the discretion of the house. His argument was, that though this might be a proper subject for discussion, it became a question whether it would or would not be a wise discretion to enter on an investigation of it. The honourable member seemed to think it impossible that the case referred to, by the honourable member for Bramber, could have occurred in the company's territories; but he would see, by the papers in question, that long since governor Donkin's time, similar cases had occurred within the company's jurisdiction.

Mr. Canning said, that whatever shades of difference might exist with respect to some parts of the present subject, there were two points on which every gentleman appeared to agree. The first obviously was, that it would be in the highest degree gratifying to every feeling of humanity if this abominable practice were eradicated; the second, that it was extremely desirable that the attempt made to attain this object should not be any thing like a coercive interference on the part of the British

government. The only matter for consideration lay therefore between these two extremes; and in going over that ground he begged gentlemen to bear in mind, that of all the exercises of human authority and of human discretion, the most difficult and delicate was that of an interference, at once effective and at the same time divested of the harshness of power. The problem which the East India company had to solve was thus one of great difficulty and delicacy; and though he was glad that this subject was brought under the consideration of the house for discussion, he could not agree with those who thought that the immediate and necessary effect of discussion here must be greatly to facilitate or to abridge the task imposed on the Indian government. He rather thought that the effect of any hostile discussion (none such undoubtedly, had occurred on this occasion), or of any serious interference or dictation on the part of parliament, would not tend much to stimulate that government which, in fact, wanted no such stimulus to engage in this work. It would, perhaps, rather alarm the natives of India; and, in consequence, occasion some relaxation on the part of government with respect to the course which they might have thought proper to pursue, for the purpose of removing apprehension from the minds of the people of India. He did not mean to say, that ultimately the effect of discussion might not be good; because the hands of government would certainly be strengthened by the opinions collectively and individually expressed. But that would not be the immediate effect.

In a former session, when the honourable gentleman stated his intention to make a motion of this kind, he (Mr. Canning) earnestly but civilly dissuaded him from his purpose, because the information was defective in one material point, namely, that though it was impossible then to say that the governor-general was inattentive to this object, or that he had not pursued it in the most proper manner, yet they had no means of forming a correct judgment of the effects which had been produced. He would ask his honourable friend (Mr. Buxton) whether, if he was legislating as the conqueror of a Catholic country, he would think his influence well exercised under these circumstances. Let him suppose one, out of the many cases which would occur, of young females offering themselves to take the veil before their minds could either be well made up or accurately informed with respect to the nature of the engagement they were about to contract; would his honourable friend think that his influence would be well exercised by sending some one to inquire for the victim at the cloister or the monastery, in order to examine her, and to tear her-upon her manifesting the slightest hesitation in answer to such inquiries-from the sacrifice that she was on the point of performing? The feelings of the Hindoos were not less acute upon such subjects than would be those of the destined nun in the imaginary case which he had just been citing. India was to be regarded as a country retaining, by the habits of education as well as by our own policy, all its ancient institutions. The honourable gen1821

tleman who made this motion, and of whose speech he (Mr. Canning) was sorry to have missed any part--so much had he been gratified with that portion of it which he had heard-had stated (not invidiously to be sure, but in a way that might be open to such a construction) that other conquerors in India, whom we had superseded, had found no difficulty in extinguishing similar superstitious rites and sacrifices. But the honourable gentleman must have forgotten, that by a singular and unprecedented indulgence of colonial policy, we had left the religious system of India as we found it: that system was not forcibly invaded by us, but merely placed under a more efficient protection than it had previously enjoyed. That protection, secured by us alone, the rulers of an empire which contained upwards of an hundred millions of inhabitants, without there being one amongst us who might fairly call one foot of the territory his own, was, perhaps, one of the most signal and splendid effects of human wisdom and human fortune which could be named. The honourable gentleman had said, that it was to gradual means, such as those which he had mentioned, that we must look for the improvement of these people, and that the diffusion of knowledge was the sole legitimate and effective mode of subduing ignorance. He (Mr. Canning) concurred in this opinion; but he thought also that this was the sole legitimate means of subduing superstition. The honourable gentleman had seemed to hold out the conduct of the Mohammedan conquerors rather as an example to be followed by

us

us; but the honourable gentleman well knew that the great distinction between the two religions professed by the two races. of conquerors was, that the one was the religion of arms, and the other of persuasion; that the one had fought its way with the sword, and that the other prevailed in spite of power; and that this latter and purer faith must be left to win its silent way among those nations before the total extirpation of their frightful sacrifices would be looked for.

Colonel Money was fully satisfied that the laying of these papers before parliament could not be an inexpedient measure, but would rather satisfy the friends of humanity that there was a feeling in parliament which was in unison with their own. In 1805, lord Wellesley had expressed his earnest hope that something might be done to extirpate these dreadful sacrifices.

Mr. W. Smith was in favour of the motion, but he thought that the inference to be derived from the conduct of the British government, as that had been stated by the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Canning), was just the reverse of what the right honourable gentleman himself seemed inclined to draw. If it had been mild, politic, beneficent, and of a nature calculated to do good to the Hindoos, he might ask why, in consistency, we should not interfere in this particular, and do them a lasting good by putting down this practice?

Mr. Fowell Buxton, in explanation, begged to observe, that if the East India company had unfortunately been advised to retract their regulations, he should feel it

his duty to bring that subject at an early opportunity before parliament. The British government in India had interfered in other cases of almost equal enormity. There was the murder of the children of the Rajpoots, for instance, which was made a capital offence. There was among another tribe a singular and horrible custom, that of a man who fancied himself injured by some person in power, collecting wood, making a pile of it, and placing at the top two living animals-a cow and an old woman, whom he saw consumed with fire; being himself impressed with the belief that all the tortures which they suffered would be experienced by his enemy.

Another case was

that of the Brahmins, the sacredness of whose persons throughout all India was proverbial, and who had, in consequence, long committed crimes with perfect impunity. In both these instances, however, the British government had thought proper to interpose; and did so effectually. But this was not all: not only had they interfered with respect to the native priests, but on one occasion they had taken liberties with their favourite God. The great Jaggernaut was not exempted from their visitation; for there being some delay in the payment of the revenue of a certain province, this government laid their hands upon him, by way of security, and kept him in pawn till the whole amount was paid up. The motion was then agreed to.

21.-Sir John Newport rose to introduce to the attention of the house, a subject of considerable importance to the peace of the country. There had appeared a

short

short time ago, in several of the newspapers, a statement of certain proceedings which were alleged to have taken place at Manchester, on the part of a society styling itself the "Orange Loyal Association." They had their regularly constituted officers, their pass-words, and their bonds of secret obligation. They were, in fact, in all respects, within the spirit and letter of the acts of 39th and 57th of the late king, and ought to be more watched and attended to by the ministers of the government, as the members of them professed to be collected together for the sake of religious distinctions. The government ought to be particularly cautious, after their experience of the irreparable injury done in Ireland by the institution of societies like these, how they for an instant tolerated their introduction into England. In the statements to which he referred was included a letter purporting to be a communication from an illustrious member of the royal family, accepting the rank of patron of the society. He (sir John Newport) was sure that the name of patron of such a society must have been obtained from that exalted personage by surprise and inadvertency. Under these circumstances, he now rose to ask his majesty's ministers, whether the statement to which he before alluded was true, so far as regarded the election of his royal highness the duke of York to the office of patron of this Orange Association.

The Marquis of Londonderry in reply said, that his royal highness did address the letter which had been published bearing date in February, and consenting or ra

ther acquiescing, (for he believed that was the phrase used on the occasion,) to become grand master of this loyal association. His royal highness did so under the persuasion that there was nothing of a peculiar religious tendency in the association. He distinctly understood that he was to take no part in the society's proceedings, and that his acceptance was merely of an honorary office. From the moment, however, that his royal highness's attention had been more particularly called to the matter, his royal highness felt that he could not belong to any society upon which a question might be raised; and in order that nothing whatever might attach to the dignity of his own character, he felt it right to convey a communication, certainly in civil terms, and without imputing any breach of the law to the parties whom he addressed, that they were no longer to consider his royal highness as holding the office of patron of their association.

Sir John Newport expressed the gratification he felt at receiving this explanation from the noble marquis of the line of conduct which the royal duke had adopted.

Lord William Bentinck rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice respecting the affairs of Sicily. His sole object was to complain, that liberty had not been practically granted to a people to whom it was promiseda promise in which he conceived the honour of the country was involved, and the due fulfilment of which was loudly required by the people, though in a manner in no degree inconsistent with the principles ór declarations of the parties 0 2 concurring

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