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had hitherto regulated its colonial tary establishment. He could assure policy. The effect of that principle the house that there was no disposi. was, in compensation for a monopoly tion on the part of his Majesty's Go- . of commerce, to maintain the civil vernment to withhold any information and military establishments of the which might be deemed conducive colonies. Whenever this branch of to a clear understanding of the subthe subject should be brought for. ject; and that whenever a motion ward, he trusted he should be able for such information should be made, to show, that this system of retaining he should be ready, not only to proin our own hands the sources of com- duce the documents required, but to mercial profit, was justified by sound enter into a detailed account of the policy, and ought not rashly to be whole system of our colonial admi- . abandoned. Another important point nistration. to which the honourable gentleman Mr Hume, in explanation, denied had adverted, was a supposed misap- that he had imputed blame to the propriation of certain colonial reve. Government; he had merely assertnues in Ceylon, the Mauritius, the ed that it was in the power of the Cape of Good Hope, and the Ionian Crown to make an improper applicaislands. With regard to those be. tion of the funds in question. It aplonging to the latter, the government peared by a return before the house, of this country had no more control that in 1815 the revenues of Malta over them, than over those of a so. were L. 114,000, and the whole vereign and independent state. The charge upon them but L. 60,000; inanagement of their finances had that there was a clear balance of been secured to them by treaty, on L. 20,000 in the Ionian islands; and condition only that the garrisons that in the Mauritius the amount of were to be supported. The reason revenue was L. 266,000; that of the why no deduction was made for the expenditure L. 219,000. staff appointments in that quarter Mr Goulburn having remarked might be readily assigned. If there that there were many charges and was any honourable member in the allowances not included in these rehouse who had at all turned his at. turns, L. 139,333 were reported for tention to the recent history of those the public departments, and agreed islands, to the political changes they to; as also L. 21,635 for medicines, had undergone, and the successive and L.100,000 for volunteer corps, spoliations which had been inflicted together with the several other sums upon them, he must be fully aware voted in the committee. of the state of want and destitution On the 2d of June Sir G. Warrento which the inbabitants were redu- der laid before the house the Esti. ced. This distress had been much mates for the Naval Service of the aggravated, by the want of integrity year. In laying these papers on the in the conduct of persons to whom table, he said lie conceived it to be the financial administration had been incumbent on bim, after the lumi. intrusted. Amidst these unfavour- nous exposition of all the details of able circumstances, some delay in this subject in the last report of the raising the necessary revenues had Finance Committee, to wait till he taken place; but it was the anxious had heard such remarks as might be desire of the government to extricate called forth, rather than occupy the itself from this difficulty, and its first time of the house with any prelimiobject the maintenance of the mili- nary observations. It would be un



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justifiable in him to pursue any other pence of its maintenance was in.
course, and he should therefore con- cluded in the vote immediately un-
tent himself for the present, with as- der consideration. The system up.
suring the house, that the navy never on which it was conducted might
had been, with reference to its ex- require modification, and admit of
tent, in a state of greater efficiency some reduction of expence; but he
than at this moment. He then moved could assure the honourable gentle
that the sum of L.2,483,313:12:6 man that there was no disposition
be voted for the ordinary establish- to put it down. Upon the sub-
ment of the

ject of the extent of our naval esta-
Mr Calcraft wished to draw the at- blishment, it was considered adequate
tention of the house on this occasion to the exigencies of the country, by
to the subject of the Naval Asylum, those who were responsible for it';
for suppressing which, in conformity and it might, in the event of war, be
to the recommendations of the com- speedily equipped in a force and
mittee, he could not conceive any efficiency that had not been surpass-
reasonable cause. He knew of no ed. It had been compared to the
institution more deserving of support, state of our army; but it should be
or the maintenance of which was recollected that a navy was much
more in unison with the general feel. sooner restored than an army, that
ings of the country. There was no the circumstances of Europe had
mention made of giving up our mili- been greatly altered, and that every
tary colleges or asylums, but all the country had, in a great measure, gi-
economy of his Majesty's Ministers ven up its fleets. The pensions which
was reserved for our naval establisho had been allowed, and the liberal
ment. The whole number of men grants for making secure road-steads,
retained for manning our fleets was greatly increased the facility of ex-
20,000, of whom 6,000 were marines. tending at any time our naval esta.
If they looked back to former pe- blishment, and he could, therefore,
riods, it would be seen that there see no reasonable foundation for
ver had been such a disproportion complaining that it had been too
between our military and naval force. much reduced.
We had at present an army compo-

Sir M. W. Ridley agreed with the sed of 100,000 men, and a navy of honourable Baronet that the respon14,000. It seemed as if we had a sibility of the naval administration dopted a new principle of national rested with the Lords of the Admipolicy-as if our defence was in fu- ralty, and he rejoiced to find that no ture to be intrusted to our land for- part of it was to be imposed on the ces, and the wooden walls were no Finance Committee. The Naval longer to be looked upon as our best Asylum was an institution of the utbulwark. Examining the relative most importance; and if any expence, advantages of the two services, it in our present embarrassments, could could not be denied that an equal be justified, it was in this particular degree of encouragement and sup- No objection had been raised port had not been extended to the by the Finance Committee to the Minaval branch.

litary Asylum, the annual expence of With regard to the Naval Asylum, which was L.39,000. He should be Sir G. Warrender said, that it was the last man to refuse any measure clear that there was no present in- of fair or necessary taxation; but he tention of abolishing it, as the ex- would protest against voting a single

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shilling till reduction had been car- stood so high, to come forward, and ried to the furthest point compatible say, on the credit of that character, with justice and the public security. that the services of these two Lords It was clear to him, that a reduction of the Admiralty were necessary to of the number of Lords of the Ad- the country. The worthy Baronet miralty ought to be made, and that who had moved these estimates had one secretary might now be able to pleaded the sanction of the Commitdischarge the business of that office. tee of Finance, which he bad hoped The long absence of the honourable had been already sufficiently damned gentleman opposite (Mr Croker) in the opinion of the country. The proved that it was not necessary that first reduction which they had proa Secretary of the Admiralty should posed ought to have been the very be in Parliament. He should now last. Considering the objects for conclude by moving, as an amend. which the Naval Asylum was originalment, that the amount of the propo- !y instituted, he was fully warranted sed grant should be L. 2,283,313. in saying, that the supporting of that 128. 6d., being a diminution of the institution would be productive of sum originally proposed, to the ex- more good to the country, than it was tent of L.200,000.

likely to derive from the services of Mr F. Douglas, in adverting to two junior Lords of the Admiralty. the present number of Lords of the Sir G. Cockburn said, that as he Admiralty, remarked, that the late had been called on, in so personal a vote of the house on that subject, manner, he had no hesitation in sta(March 18th,) had been obtained in ting, and in staking his private as a great measure by the astonishment well as his public character on the excited by the declaration of the statement, that it was necessary

for gallant admiral opposite, (Sir G. the safety of the country that the Cockburn,) that the office of the two Admiralty-board should remain con. lay lords was by no means a sinecure. stituted as it was at present. It was The house, however, had now a right his firm conviction that the board to consider the propriety of abolishe could not be better constituted than ing these two offices, as a measure of it then was; and that if the house retrenchment, before they entered in reduced it, they would deprive the to the general question of the amount country of the benefit which was at to be voted. The house had been present derived from it. With retold the public officers should have gard to the argument which had been some relaxation from their duties; urged against the reduction of our and the honourable Secretary of the

naval establishment at present, when Admiralty had said that the two lay it was alleged that employment could lords had always been continued in not be found for our seamen, the fact former times, in peace as well as in was, that seamen could not be prowar. This was all very well; and a cured to man the ships which were reference to the practice of former at that moment in commission. This times would be to the point, if the was a sufficient proof that there was honourable gentleman could produce no distress among seamen for want an example of the country being, at of employment. any former time, so oppressed with The house then divided, when the burdens as it was at present. He amendment was negatived by a mawould now call on the gallant admi- jority of 67, and the original resolural (Sir George Cockburn,) whose tion put and carried. public and professional character

The Chairman having proposed

the second resolution, namely, that lution, that the sum of L.65,000, bethe sum of L.1,631,628 be voted for ing the allowance for works in Berdefraying the expence of building, muda, Jamaica, and Trincomalee, be rebuilding, and repairing, ships of deducted from the proposed grant. war, wear and tear, and various ex. Mr Croker said, that last year and tra works; Mr Hume said, that ta- the year before it had been recomking it for granted, on the word of the mended and acceded to, that no new honourable Baronet, that the report works should be commenced till the of the Finance Committee was to be estimates were submitted to the considered his speech on the grant House; and that, accordingly, no before the house, he should beg to new works had been commenced. know, whether it was intended to The works alluded to by the honouradopt the suggestion of the commit. able gentleman had been in progress tee respecting the Naval Asylum. He for years. The same objection might thought the house should not vote indeed have been made to the sum this grant till estimates of all the na- proposed for building ships at Malta. val works had been produced. The The expences of completing all those committee had voted L.15,000 for the works were unknown, and no estiworks in Harlbowline Island, and in mate could therefore have been sub. that case there was an estimate of the mitted. He should be sorry that expence ; but they had also voted such a motion as that of the honour: L.20,000 forBermuda,L.15,000 for Ja. able gentleman should be carried, as maica, and L.20,000 for Trincomalee, no works were so important to the although they had no estimates of the country as those to which it referred. sums that would be required to com- It would be in the highest degree plete the works in those islands. He detrimental, if the utmost extent prowould suggest that the amount of posed for those works should not be these votes be deducted from the attained. If the honourable gentlegrant, till the estimates of the ex. man should be in Parliament when pence were laid before the house. the works should happen to be finishHe should also like to know whether ed, be would do right then to ask for the grant to the Board of Longitude an explanation as to the amount of was intended for the present occa- the expences. The expences were, sion, or was it to be an annual vote? however, less this year than usual. He certainly thought that reductions This was the proper course : small should be made rather in the army sums were laid out in several places, than in the navy estimates ; but at and works were thus continued in the same time he hoped that his Ma- progress, and greater expences could jesty's Ministers would attend to the afterwards be allowed to finish them. suggestions of the committee, and As to the question respecting the carry into effect all the reductions sum voted to the Longitude-board, he recommended, whether in the army would observe, that L. 10,000 had or in the navy. He repeated, that been formerly voted, and now it was the house would do well to reduce only L.4,000. None of the navy every salary that had increased since

estimates was less objectionable, or 1797, to the scale of that day; and would have every farthing of its ain that case, he would venture to say, mount more usefully expended. The that no additional taxes would be honourable gentlemen níust be aware necessary. He concluded by propo- that the Naval Asylum had been orising, as an amendment to the reso- ginally established by private chariLast year

ty, and that Government expended nation in future unnecessary. At L.100,000 upon it, having taken the Deptford the foundations of the wall charity and the money also into their were found to be a great deal worse own hands.

than had been supposed, and it was The amendment, that the sum therefore judged much better to should be L.1,576,000, was then ne. build a new wall than to patch up the gatived without a division, the origi- old, which had stood for more than a nal motion for the sum of L.1,631,000 century. The works at Sheerness, agreed to, and the sum of L.419,319 which were of vast importance, were for provisions for troops and garri- of such a nature that no accurate essons on foreign stations, voted with timates could have been formed. Unout any remark.

less the honourable Baronet had had The sum of L.486,198 being moved a personal inspection of the works, for towards improvements in the it was impossible for him to underyards, &c. Sir M. W. Ridley said, stand the nature of the difficulty. that the excess of money expended The nature of the ground was such on many of these works, beyond the as rendered it impossible to calculate original estimate, required explana. the expences. With respect to the tion. For the works at Deptford, works at Woolwich, he had to say the original estimate was L. 34,468. that L.20,000 had usually been voted

L.27,000 had been voted, for removing the mud from Wooland now L. 27,000 were asked, ma- wich-yard. It was thought that by king together L.54,000, which ex- changing the course of the river this ceeded the estimate by nearly sum might be saved. The channel L.20,000. The expences for repair of the river was now actually deeper ing the wharf wall at Woolwich had than it had ever been. been estimated at L. 39,000. The The sum was then voted, as also expences required last year had been L. 284,321 for the Transport Departstated as uncertain, but amounted to ment. L.25,000. The estimated expences

Mr R. Ward then rose to submit still necessary were now stated at the Ordnance Estimates to the comL. 26,450, of which L. 13,000 were mittee. By the retrenchments efasked by the present motion. Here fected this year, a very considerable again was an addition of L. 12,000. sum had been saved to the public. A similar excess was charged for the There was a retrenchment of L.62,000 works at Sheerness. The original in the ordinary estimate compared estimate had been L. 754,600. In the with that of 1818. In the extraordiyear 1818, L. 433,800, had been vo- naries there was a saving of L.24,000. ied. The sum estimated to be still (Another retrenchment of L. 10,000 necessary was L. 553,800 of which was stated by the honourable memL.170,000 were asked in the present ber, but he did not mention in what motion. Here again was an excess department it had been made.) There of L.233,000 beyond the original es was however an excess in the half-pay timate. In Plymouth, and at all the and superannuations of L. 43,000. works, the same excess was to be The total saving was thus L.50,000 found beyond the original estimate. in the estimates of this compared

Mr Croker admitted that some ex. with last year : 1,824 officers and planation was required, and he trust- men had been reduced ; the numed that he was able to give that ex. bers for 1818 having been 9,759, and planation, so as to make any expla- for 1819, 7,935. He concluded by

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