t. ion was made, and the Houfe were in poffeffion of it, he gave it his hearty fupport. Colonel Luttrell rofe again, and said, he was willing to fecond the motion, provided the right honourable gentleman would pledge himself to the Houfe, that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland fhould not, on Tuesday next, push the declaratory bill, which it was known was intended to be agitated in the Irish Parliament. The Colonel declared he thought the interefts of Ireland and England infeparable, and that the former claimed no more than fhe had a juft right to expect; if therefore, the right honourable gentleman would give his word to the Houfe, that the declaratory bill fhould not be pushed in the Houfe of Commons of Dublin, he fhould have no objections to fecond and fupport the motion, confidering it as a matter not to be precipitated, but otherwife he would not fecond it. The Speaker faid, he felt it his duty to inform the Houfe, that he believed they were proceeding in a manner totally contrary to order. He reminded gentlemen that there was a standing order, by which a rule was laid down, that no bill affecting the commerce of Great Britain or Ireland, fhould be moved for in that Houfe, without its being previoufly proposed to the confideration of a Committee of the whole Houfe, and by that Committee refolved on as a proper bill to be brought in. The motion then in his hand, the Speaker obferved, not only affected the commerce of Ireland, but the whole legiflation of that country; and therefore it appeared to him to come within the ftanding order, and likewife to be of fo much importance, that it ought first to be referred to a Committee. He fubmitted this opinion, however, to the confideration of the Houfe, and would obey their directions how he was to act. Mr. Fox declared he felt it neceffary to fay fomething, though he would not make all the obfervations on what had fallen from the right honourable gentleman on the floor, which had fuggefted themselves to his mind, because he muft in that cafe greatly fatigue the Houfe, and becaufe he was perfuaded every gentleman prefent felt as he did, on the very extraordinary proceedings of the day. The Houfe would recollect, that an honourable gentleman behind him, had given rife to the debate, by getting up to remind them of what he had faid relative to Ireland previous to the recess, and that the fame honourable gentleman had called on a right honourable member on the floor to give the House fome information refpecting the state of affairs in Ireland. Upon which that right honourable gentleman, without any previous confultation with his Majefty's Minifters, without faying a fyllable to any one Member of Adminiftration upon the fubject, had thought propor to move for the repeal of the 6th of George the I. thereby abandoning at once the fupremacy of this country over Ireland, and difuniting that kingdom from this at a fingle ftroke. The honourable gentleman's motion was in fubftance and effect nothing lefs than a declaration of uncon ditional fubmiffion on the part of Great Britain, and a direct relinquishment of her dearest and most valuable rights. For himfelf, Mr. Fox faid, he was fo new in office, he had no right to claim any refpect whatever; but for those of his Majefty's Ministers, with whom he was joined, he was warranted to fay, it would have been decent, it would have been refpectful to have confulted them previous to the taking any step in Parlia ment, on a topic of fo much importance. Had the right honourable gentleman done fo, he would have learnt, that short as the time was, that his Majesty's prefent Minifters had been in their fituations, they had turned their most ferious attention to the alarming state of Ireland, and that it was not from any indifpofition to do Ireland justice, that they had not on that first day of their fetting their feet in that Houfe as Minifters, proposed fome meafures, which fhould in their confideration be wife and expedient, and likely to conciliate the affections of the people of Ireland, and put an end to the uneafineffes, jealoufies and tumults that it was well known had fubfifted, and continued to fubfift in that much-injured country. It was not from any want of inclination to do Ireland right, that they had not yet taken such a step, but merely from a difdain to follow the example of the worst fort of conduct of their predeceffors in office, who were always catching at expedients of the moment, and were rather willing to patch up a prefent difficulty, at any rate, than to meet it fairly, to fathom its depth, and to confider what was likely to be a folid and permanent means of remedying a real evil, and preventing its arifing in future. It was with a view to fettle the conftitution of the two countries in fuch a manner as fhould be perfectly fatisfactory to England and Ireland, and and fhould promife to give a lafting harmony to both, that his Majefty's Minif ters paufed upon the fubject; not from any indifpofition towards Ireland, not from any idea that her claims were either unjuft or unreasonable, not from the moft diftant intention of letting them remain unfatisfied! Had the right honourable gentleman thought proper to confult his Majefty's Minifters upon the fubject, he would have learnt, that the matter had been, and was under their confideration, and that not many days, or rather not many hours would have been fuffered to pafs, before fome propofitions would have been offered to that Houfe in order to conciliate the affections of the Irish, of whofe loyalty and of whofe admiration and regard for this country, there could be no doubt. One thing however he had learnt from the very extraordinary fpeech of the right honourable gentleman, and that was, the motive of this poft-hafte journey to England. It was now evident, that the right honourable gentleman had come over fo fuddenly for the fole purpose of furrendering the fupremacy of this country over Ireland. New as the doctrine of difuniting was in the mouths of the late Minifters and their friends, and ill-advifed as it might be in the prefent inftance, he wifhed they had adopted it earlier, and that the unity of the British empire had not been fo obftinately infifted on. Had the opportunity that offered for gratifying the reasonable requests of Ireland fome years ago been feized, had her petitions been complied with when he came to the Bar of the Houfe fubmiffive and obedient, standing, as all who ask a favour do usually stand, on the justice of their claim, rather than on their power, this country would have acted a wife part, and might have gracioufly granted those boons which had fince been, as it were, torn from her in a manner exceedingly difgraceful to Great Britain. But in perfect confiftency to the cuftom of the late Miniftry, (by whom every thing, that was asked, however reafonable, however right, was contemptuously denied as long as they dared venture to deny, and then when the moment of danger arrived, though what was barely moderate was refused before, more than was compatible with the honour of the country, was fhamefully and meanly given up) fo now the right honourable gentleman, who, during his Miniftry in Ireland, had uniformly oppofed all the claims made by different gentlemen on : different grounds, and, as far as he had confidered them, on good grounds in the Irish Parliament, was the first to poft over to England, and propose a measure of the moft alarming extent that could poffibly be conceived. While he faid this, he begged not to be understood as giving any opinion whether the measure was, or was not, a proper one in itself. He was paffing no opinion upon it whatever he was merely deferibing the very extraordinary manner in which it was brought forward, and the nature of it. For his part, he was moft fully perfuaded, that Ireland had a juft right to expe& ample redrefs from this country for the oppreffive treatment the had long groaned under; and he would anfwer for the reft of his Majefty's Minifters, that they were of the fame opinion; but they must be strange Counfellors of the Crown, who would venture to advise his Majefty of a fudden to come into fo extenfive a propofition as that then before the Houfe. The fubje& was nice, and it required the deepest confideration. He was not ripe to pronounce upon the motion, but he was far from faying that fomething like it might not be proper; all he wifhed was, not to be urged to pafs a hafty judgment on fo important a bufinefs. The honourable gentleman had talked of his administration having been a fortunate one; it appeared' to him to be the oddeft refult of a fortunate administration that could be conceived, for the Minifter of Ireland to feel himself bound to poft over to England, to propofe fuch a motion as that under difcuffion. God defend him from the good fortune of producing such a confequence by his Administration! But that was not the only furprifing, the only paradoxical part of the right honourable gentleman's fpeech; he had talked of the volunteers of Ireland in a way equally unaccountable. He had faid, they took up arms in the fummer of 1780 for their amusement,-oh most wonderful amufement, most strange turn of diverfion! It was to that amufement, and to that diverfion, that the right honourable gentleman was impelled to poft over to England, in order to make his motion. It was to the power of the volunteers of Ireland, and not to the justice of their claims, that the right honourable gentleman now felt it neceffary to propofe a matter directly contrary to the whole fyftem of his conduct during his Adminiftration. The right honourable gentleman had faid, there was no other oppofition to his administration, but but fuch as every government muft with for, and fuch as juft ferved to keep them awake. Did the Houfe know, what the fort of oppofition really was, and of whom it was conftituted? Had the Houfe heard the names of Lord Charlemont, of Mr. Yelverton, of Mr. Grattan, of Mr. Burgh, of Mr. Flood, and of many others, which he would not then mention? Names of the greatest, the ableft, and the honefteft men in Ireland! The Lord defend him from fuch oppofers! The Lord keep him from having his measures objected to by perfons of fuch wifdom, fuch ability, and fuch weight! The whole of the right honourable gentleman's conduct, as the Minister of Ireland, was as extraordinary as his fpeech that day. He had been fent over here for the exprefs purpofe of bringing the Earl of Carlifle's refignation, and of giving his Majefty's Minifters a full, fair, and candid information of the state of facts in Ireland; and how had the right honourable gentleman complied with his inftructions? He had come to town, and finding the Miniftry changed, had fent a letter to a noble lord, (a colleague of his,) declaring that he would give them no information whatever refpecting Ireland, and menacing them with a threat that he would, as that day, come down to the Houfe, and speak upon the fubject of Ireland. He owned for his part that he had no great dread of that menace, though he was at a lofs to guefs what the right Hon. gentleman meant to fay. The candour of the Houfe was what he had fo often experienced, that he was not much terrified at the honourable gentleman's threat. The Houfe now knew what its nature was, and he was perfectly at their difpofal. With regard to the alarming state of Ireland, he did not at all doubt but it was pretty correctly defcribed by the right honourable gentleman, but then it ought to be remembered to what it was afcribcable! He declared he felt it right to take that opportunity of faying, that though he thought but very indifferently of the state of the country a fortnight ago, his opinion then was nothing compared to his knowledge upon the fame fubject at that moment. His fufpicions of the negligence and scandalous mifmanagements of his Majefty's late Ministers were now matured into ripe judgments, and he was forry to have found that things were infinitely worfe than he had imagined them to be, and that bad as they had been defcribed, the defcription given to that Houfe by him and others from time to time, fell infinitely fhort of the real fituation of affairs, which fituation was in his mind fo clearly afcribcable to the neglects of the late Minifters, that he fhould not think the prefent Adminiftration acted fairly and honeftly by that Houfe and the people, if they did not inftitute enquiries, and fuch enquiries as fhould give the country a correct ftate of the condition, in which public matters ftood. With regard to the prefent motion, he trusted that he should not be mifreprefented in confequence of what he had faid upon it, and held out to Ireland as a perfon indifpofed to grant her relief, or unwilling to admit the truth and juftnefs of her claims. On the contrary, he thought Ireland had ftrong grounds of complaint, and that her claims ought to be complied with as far as they poffibly could. He repeated it therefore, that he and the reft of his Majefty's Minifters were moft cordially and fincerely inclined to do Ireland ample juftice, and that it had been one of the firft objects of their confideration upon coming into office. That in a few hours fome propofitions would be offered to the Houfe with refpect to Ireland, and that he did not object to the prefent motion from any conviction that it was an improper one, but merely because he was not quite ripe to fay, that it was the best motion that could be brought forward on the fubject. He fhould therefore not meet it with a negative, but with a previous queftion, or, he believed, it would be a more regular mode of getting rid of it for the prefent, by moving the order of the day upon it. He would tell the Houfe, however, why he did not prefer in his own mind the moving the order of the day upon it, to moving the previous queftion, and that was, because if the or der of the day was moved, it would deprive an honourable friend of his of the power of moving that day for leave to bring in a bill, which he knew his honourable friend [Mr. Crew] intended to have moved, viz. a bill for taking away from Custom-houfe officers the right of voting at elections of Members of Parlia ment. As it was highly neceffary that not an hour fhould be loft in giving the public the ftrongest proof, that his Majefty's Minifters were fincere in the determination to make fuch reforms as were neceffary, and to enforce that system of government which they had repeatedly called for, when not in place, it was his with that his honourable friend should have have moved his bill on that day, but as, upon confideration, the poftponing that motion for four and twenty hours would make no great difference, and as he had mentioned it, he trusted the public would not confider it as giving up, in the leaft way that was material, that anxiety to begin measures of reformation, which they had promifed. For thefe reafons, Mr. Fox declared, he would move that the Order of the day be read, which he did accordingly. Lord Mahon feconded Mr. Fox's motion, and defired the right honourable gentleman, who had made the first motion, or the noble lord who feconded it, would not confider any thing strong that might come from him upon the fubject as perfonal to them, but apply both his words and his reafoning to the motion, and to that only. His lordfhip then treated the original motion with great feverity, and called it an infidious attempt to fet Great Britain and Ireland more at variance than they were already He faid, that the right honourable gentleman had not dared to move for the repcal of the whole of the 6th George the I. but had merely moved for the repeal of a part of it, by which means Ireland would be induced to imagine that this country infifted upon fuch parts of the bill, as they did not repcal, and thus new jealoufies and new divifions would be created. His lordship read the title of the bill from the ftature book, to fupport his argument, and fpoke with great afperity of the motion made by Mr. Eden, which he declared to be big with moft mifchievous confequences. General Conway rofe to fay a few words upon the subject. The General declared his aftonishment at the right honourable gentleman's conduct. He faid that honourable gentleman had totally refufed to give government the leaft information refpecting the affairs of Ireland, [Mr. Eden fhook his head] and yet he wanted to draw in that Houfe haftily and precipitately to accede to a crude and ill-digefted motion of the most important tendency. He took notice of Mr. Eden's fhaking his head, and declared he had been deceived very much if the honourable gentleman had not fent a letter to one of the Secretaries of State, in which he exprefsly faid, he would not communicate with them on the affairs of Ireland. Thofe affairs, the General informed the House had been made the fubject of difcuffion at feveral different Councils already, although the prefent Minifters had fo lately been of his Majesty's cabinet; why then would the honourable gentleman force them of a fudden into a meafure of the first importance before they had fufficient time to digeft and concoct their opinions upon its propriety He concluded with earneftly prefling Mr. Eden to poftpone his motion, and wait to fee what meatures his Majefty's Ministers fhould propofe. Mr. Eden faid, in reply to Mr. Conway and Mr. Fox, that he feriously dreaded the mifconftruction which might be put on deferring the question of which the Houfe was now in poffeffion, and he could not confent to it. That with regard to the perfonal points which had been improperly brought into debate, he should be ahamed to fhew his face in Ireland, if he were capable of difcuffing fuch little incidents, in the midft of a debate so cffential to both kingdoms. Since, however, his letter had been brought into queftion, he would fay without fcruple, that on feeing a great Vice-royalty, in the midft of an important feffion, transferred like a finecure office into new hands at a moment's warning, he fairly thought the indignity great to the perfon in queftion, and that indignity connected with inconvenience to the public bufinefs, and mifchiefs to the public intereft; under this impreffion, he had thought it of no avail to fubmit officially his ideas to men, who had abruptly and ftrangely put a period to the government which he was ferving. It would have been idle to suppose, that there could be a wish to receive information from a government which had been demolished without a queftion two days before he arrived in England to tender the propofed refignation, which was meant only to take place after closing the feffion. Mr. Fox produced the letter fent by Mr. Eden to Lord Shelburne, and faid, though it was undoubtedly of a public nature, yet fo unwilling was he to do any thing of an indelicate, or an unhandfome fort, that he would not read it to the Houfe, unlets the right honourable gentleman gave him his confent. [Mr. Eden having faid, he had no objection to the letter's being read] Mr. Fox read the letter*, and remarked upon it in the courfe of Downing-freet, April 5, 1782. "My Lord, "Having re-confidered the conferences with which your lordfhtp yesterday indulged of his recitation of the different paffages, deducing an argument from the whole, that it amounted to an exprefs declaration, that the fender of it, on account of the Earl of Carlisle being removed fuddenly from his Lieutenancy of Yorkshire, and from his Viceroyalty, would not communicate with his Majefty's Minifters upon the fubject of facts in Ireland, though the right honourable gentleman's inftructions were to give Minifters a fair and full account of affairs there. With regard to the recalling the Earl of Carlile, Mr. Fox faid, it was very extraordinary for indulged me, I think that I ought specifi cally to fate my reafons for having often declined your intimations to me to enter into opinions and facts respecting the prefent circumftances of Ireland, and the meafures beft to be purfued there. When I arrived in London, I came prepared and difpofed, and inftructed to ferve, moft cordially, in the critical measure of closing the Lord Lieutenant's government, fo as to place it with all practicable advantages in the hands of whatever person his Majefty's Minifters might have deftined to jucceed to it. "I pre-fuppofed, however, that either his Excellency would be recalled very foon, but not without the attentions which are due to him, his fiation, and his jer vices; or that his Majefty's Minifters would affift and inftru&t him in first concluding the bufinefs of the feffion, and the various public measures and arrangements of fome difficulty and confequence, which are immediately connected with it, and which cannot be compleated in lefs than four or five months. "Finding, however, to my extreme furprize, that the manner of giving the Lieutenancy of the East Riding to Lord Carmarthen, had been fuch as to amount to a marked and perfonal infult, when it is eonfidered that the thing taken is merely honourary, and that the perfon from whom it is taken is an abfent Viceroy; and hear ing alfo from your lordship, that the Duke of Portland is not unlikely to be made the immediate and actual messenger of his wn appointment, I from that moment deelined any communication respecting facts and measures; because this line adopted towards the prefen: Lord Lieutenant, muft in my opinion be fatal to the cafe of his fucceffors for a long period of time, and ruinous to all good government, and the confequent peace of Ireland. the honourable gentleman to declare him* felf piqued because he fuppofed the Earl Carlifle treated unhandfomely in being recalled, although he had himself brought over the Earl's refignation, and that couched in the most unconditional terms, without the leaft hint of a defire to continue in Ireland any longer. He protested, he had a great degree of perfonal regard for the Earl of Carlisle. He knew him, and refpected his abilities, and by no means meant him any perfonal difrefpect or indignity. He reminded the honourable gentleman of the harsh manner in "Your lordship has informed me, that this is not meant as a perfonal exertion of power against Lord Carlisle, but that his Majefty's Minifters have adopted this mode of removing the Lord Lieutenant, as a wife measure of government. I differ fo totally in my judgment, that it would be idle in me to trouble them further ref pecting Ireland. "Ifhall, as the duty of my fituation requires, wait on fuch of his Majefty's Minifters as are difpofed to see me, and with that refpect which is due to them, Shall fubmit what I have here stated. "My next anxiety is to act as I believe Lord Carlisle would wish me to a&, for his honour and the public jervice, two objects which cannot at this moment be feparated. I am ready this evening, or to-morrow morning, at any hour, to attend the commands of his Majefty's Minifters, either feparately or collectively. To-morrow at two, I shall go into the country, to make a vifit of perfonal refpect and private friendship; and on Monday, in the Houfe of Commons, I shall fate, as fully as a weak voice will permit, what I conceive to be the prefent circumftances of Ireland: I shall do this without any mixture of complaint, and with the most anxious regard to facilitate any fubfequent fyftem for the public tranquility; I Shall only wish to let it be implied by the world, from Irish facts, in contradiction to Engligh treatment, that the prefent Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (I borrow his own words from his last letter to your lordship) "has had the good fortune to conduct the bufinefs of Ireland, at a most critical period, without difcredit to his Majefty's government, and with many increafing advantages to the interefts of his kingdoms. "I have the honour to be, &c. which |