CORNELIUS PRICE.

Examined by Mr. McMillan:

Q. What is your name, age, occupation and place of residence? A. Cornelius Price; occupation, builder; residence, Chicago, and age, fifty years.

Q. How long have you been engaged in building?

A. About thirty years.

Q.

What character of builder do you mean-carpenter or mason work?

Q. State whether or not you have examined the new capitol building at this place?

A. I have.

Q. State as fully and as briefly as yon can the result of that examination.

A. The first examination I made was in the basement or lower part of the basement story, which I examined very thoroughly. I found the work in a very good condition there; the brick and arches laid in cement. Then I examined the story above the brick work and stone work both. I found a portion of the upper story laid in water lime, commonly called cement mortar. I found that also in good condition. I also examined the execution of the work. I found the work very properly executed, the walls plumb and straight. I examined that portion of the building laid up in what is called Athens mortar, made by lime said to contain cement qualities. I found that mortar soft-the outside of it. I examined the outside part thoroughly, and found some of it frozen, or had been frozen and had scaled off. I got a chisel then and hammer and cut into the interior of the wall, and examined it then. I found the mortar in better condition in them than upon the outside, although the wall was very damp. I attributed that, to a considerable extent, to the walls being left exposed all winter, and not having been properly cared for. I found the work laid very well-well grouted, the joints well filled in the interior walls. I did not cut into the outside walls. I found lime was used of that character all over the building. I examined the north and south sides. On the south exposure I found the mortar a little harder than upon the north exposure, because the sun shining upon it dried it out more.

Q. State what kind of material was used in making the mortar in which the brick work, of which you have spoken, was made

A. I noticed a portion of it, the corridor walls, were laid in cement water lime principally, no mixture of quick lime in it. It was in very good condition, except a few courses on the top.

Q. The question is as to what kind of material.

A. I am speaking of the material. It was laid in water lime, free from quick lime; the north and south flank, I think, was laid up in quick lime, Lemont or Athens lime. That mortar had not become hard.

Q. My question is as to the character of the materials used in making that mortar-speak of the sand and lime of which it was made.

A. I did not see the lime, only as it was mixed with the mortar put into the building. I saw some of it slacked and left out exposed, but I saw nothing of the lime, except as it was mixed; I suppose the mortar was properly mixed with that red sand.

Q. What kind of sand was used in making this mortar?

A. I should think the largest portion was red sand, taken out of the river line.

Q. Is that such sand as you would denominate sharp sand? A. Yes, sir; it is quite sharp. It is not the best quality of sand.

Q. Is it a good quality of sand?

A. It is good of the kind.

Q. Is it a good quality of sand?

A. I have never called it first quality of sand; they have two or three large piles of gray sand there, that is good sand.

Q. Still you do not answer the question as to whether that is good sand.

A. The gray sand is good; the other sand I said was not first quality.

Q. Is it a good quality?

A. It is, so far that I think very good mortar can be made out of it.

Q. State, whether or not you know the Lemont lime.

A. I have never used any lime properly coming from there; I have used the Lockport lime.

Q. Do you know whether or not that is made of the same quality of stone?

A. All I know about the Lockport lime is, that I used it în buildings, and found it was not quick lime; it would slack, but in slacking it didn't increase in bulk-I could put it all back in the same barrel; it made a good strong wall. It is a lime I do not use, because it is not profitable. It don't make as much mortar as lime we have in Chicago.

Q. State whether or not the walls in this new building are in good condition?

A. I should not say that those walls, laid up with that quick lime, are in good condition-not on account of the mortar used, but more on account of the manner they have been cared for. There is neglect of duty on some ones' part, in not properly taking care of the walls.

Q. State whether or not those walls are defective, from the want of proper materials from which the mortar was made.

A. I think, probably, the material was good; that the mortar was good if the building had been properly taken care of, and not been left exposed to the weather until it destroyed the outside surface of the mortar-that part exposed to view in the joints. Upon further examination into the walls, I found the frost had not affected it.

Q. State whether or not the mortar in new walls will improve by age and become adhesive.

A. I think it will; all that has not been destroyed by frost, which extends probably an inch into the wall, will become hard. I think the interior of the walls will get hard.

Q. State from the condition in which you found these walls, whether, in your opinion, they ought to be taken down and rebuilt.

A. I do not think it is necessary to tear down the walls and re build them; probably they will have to take off two or three feet from the top, and rebuild that.

2. State whether or not those walls are sufficient, in their present condition, to admit of their extension upwards, some forty to sixty feet, after taking off the cours es you spoke of.

A. I think they would be sufficient.

Q. Can you state, then, when the walls are completed, whether they would be entirely safe and endurable?

A. Yes, sir, I think they would be. I will give you a little idea about mortar setting. In Chicago we frequently build walls

up in ninety days; I built the Tremont House, in Chicago, in that way; the mortar in the construction of it had not time to dry and set; it was probably just as green in the interior of the walls, when completed, as when we commenced building it; the walls were some eighty or ninety feet high, and there was no bond to the mortar all the time; it became set afterwards. It is a principle, that the longer the walls stand the harder the mortar becomes; there is no time fixed when it will become set and stop cementing. I don't know as I have ever read any work upon mortar, stating the time when it will stop cementing and growing harder.

Q. State whether, or not, that is a first class job of brick work! A. So far as the execution of the work is concerned, it is first class.

Q. I speak of the material used in its construction, also.

A. The material used may be different from the material I find there now. I find the walls being so exposed that the material has been injured, to a certain extent, by exposure to the weather. Q. State whether, or not, it is possible to make a first class job of that building, without tearing down these walls?

A. Yes sir, I think it will make a good building, without tearing down the walls.

Q. Will it be a first class job, when completed?

A. I should think they could make a first class job, after tak ing off a few feet of those walls and building it up again. It will make a first class job. In two or three months the mortar in those walls will be very different from what it is now.

Q. Is it possible to make a first quality of mortar unless you use first quality material, including both lime and sand ?

A. No, sir; I don't think you can make a first class quality of anything out of an inferior article.

Q. Could you make first quality of mortar out of the sand you found upon the State House ground?

A. Out of that grey sand I could; sand I understand they got out of the Illinois river.

Q. Could you make first class mortar out of the yellow sand you found upon the ground there?

A. No, sir; it is not a first quality of sand.

Q. Do you know whether that yellow sand was used in making the mortar you examined to day, in that building?

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A. I only know what the superintendent said about it. I asked him which sand the walls were laid up with; he said it was laid up in about equal proportions. I could not tell by examining the mortar, as the color of the sand was changed by the lime.

Q. Would the mixture of the two kinds of sand you speak of, with the proper proportion of lime, make a first quality of mortar!

A. It would make a good quality, but not first class. It is out of the nature of things to make first class mortar out of that red sand. We have sand upon the lake that makes first class mortar. It is sand, with no impure substance in it.

Q. State anything further you know with reference to the ma terial used in that building?

A. I have never used the Lemont lime. All I know of it is what the maker of it has told me. I made objections to his lime on account of the cement water lime in it. It sets very quick, and we could not work it with ease.

By Mr. ROBERTS:

Q. State if you examined the stone work, the cut stone work upon that building?

A. I did.

Q. State your opinion about that.

A. I found some defects in the cutting of it, in some of the joints, but upon the whole I think it is a very good job. I will say this that I was surprised that so good a job could come from the State Prison.

Q. Is it a first class job of stone work?

A. It approaches very near first class. In cutting so large an amount of stone there must necessarily be some stone that would be marred. It has been handled with considerable care, and it is well set.

Cross examination by Mr. Webb, on behalf of the Commissioners: Q. You say that Lemont lime is unprofitable. You mean it is unprofitable to the contractor?

A. Yes sir.

Q. I believe you did not state that you had knowledge as to whether it was good lime?

A. No, sir; I never used it. The maker of it has very fre quently offered to send some of it to me to let me test it, but I never used any of it.