District of Loudoun and Fairfax, District of Frederick and Jefferson, James Monroe, (Ex-P.) of Loudoun, (John R. Cooke, of Frederick, William Naylor, of Hampshire, District of Hampshire, Hardy, Berkeley) William Donaldson, of Hampshire, and Morgan, Elisha Boyd, of Berkeley, Philip C. Pendleton, of Berkeley. (John B. George, of Tazewell, Edward Campbell, of Washington, District of Washington, Lee, Scott, Rus- Andrew M'Millan, of Lee, sell and Tazewell, District of King William, King and (John Roane, of King William, District of Wythe, Montgomery, Grayson Henley Chanan, of Giles, and Giles, District of Kanawha, Mason, Cabell, John P. Mathews, of Wythe, (Edwin S. Duncan, of Harrison, Philip Doddridge, of Brooke, District of Ohio, Tyler, Brooke, Monon- Charles S. Morgan, of Monongalia, gulia and Preston, District of Fauquier and Culpeper, District of Norfolk, Princess Anne, Nansemond and Borough of Norfolk, Alexander Campbell, of Brooke, John S. Barbour, of Culpeper, Littleton W. Tazewell, of Norfolk Borough, William Campbell, of Bedford, District of Campbell, Buckingham and Samuel Claytor, of Campbell, Callohill Mennis, of Bedford, George Townes, of Pittsylvania, District of Franklin, Patrick, Henry and Benj. W. 9. Cabell, of Pittsylvania, Joseph Martin, of Henry, James Pleasants, of Goochland, District of Albemarle, Amherst, Nelson, William F. Gordon, of Albemarle, District of King George, Westmoreland, Lucas P. Thompson, of Amherst, Ellyson Currie, of Lancaster, District of Matthers, Middlesex, Accomack, Northampton and Gloucester, Thomas R. Joynes, of Accomack, All the above members were present, and answered to their names, with the following exceptions: Absentees-William B. Giles, from the First District; David Watson, from the Ninth District, who has notified the Executive of his inability to serve; Callohill Mennis, from the Twentieth District; William A. G. Dade, from the Twenty-third District, (and who, it is believed, will resign, in consequence of indisposition); Ellyson Currie, from the Twenty-third District, dead; and Calvin H. Read, from the Twentyfourth District (sick.) Mr. Doddridge then offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the Secretary of this Convention, be authorised and required to provide the same with stationery, and that he do also contract for, and superintend all such public printing as shall be ordered by this Convention, on the most beneficial terans for the Commonwealth in his power. In advocating the adoption of this resolution, Mr. Doddridge observed, that he had been induced to offer it to the Convention, by a desire to avoid the occurrence of any thing like strife or party collisions, so apt to be excited whenever the public printing of deliberative bodies was given by resolution or election to a particular individual. He understood that the public printing of Congress had, for many years, been confided to the management of the Clerk of the House of Representatives, and if he had been rightly informed, it was done as well, and as much to the satisfaction of the members, as it had been since the mode had been changed and a public printer appointed. He feared, if the Convention should proceed to the election of a printer, its members would be thrown into parties, and an unpleasant contest ensue. This he earnestly wished to avoid: he believed the resolution he had had the honour to propose was calculated to avoid it, and he thought it would be acknowledged to be practical, reasonable and fair in its character. Mr. Nicholas was opposed to the resolution. He most fully agreed with the memher, who had proposed it in deprecating the introduction of party spirit and party collisions into this body. But he did not see why such consequences must follow the election of a printer to the Convention, any more than the election of any other offieer. He presumed that all the members would vote, in such an election, from the same regard to the public good and the same conviction of the fitness of the candidate proposed, as they would in any other, or as they had in the ballots just taken. He could perceive no necessity whatever of putting out the small amount of printing required by this body to be contracted for. The appointment of a public printer was the standing, permanent usage of this State. There had always been such a printer appointed by her Legislature, as well in the Senate as in the House of Delegates. He could see no motive for a change of that usage in the present case. The public work ought to be done by an officer responsible immediately to the House itself: where was the necessity for any intermediate agency? He was aware of the very respectable character of the Secretary, with whom the resolution proposed to place this trust, nor was it any objection to that officer which induced him to object to the measure; but he wished to avoid any subordinate agency as unnecessary and improper. Let the printer be appointed by the House itself: let him be responsible directly to the House which appointed him. As to the stationery, he took it for granted, that had already been furnished by the Clerk of the House of Delegates: if so, he saw no need of ary farther provision on that subject. He was, however, uninformed on this point, being now for the first time a member of a deliberative body. Seeing no good end to be accomplished by the resolution which had been presented, he was opposed to its adoption: he hoped the House would reject it, and then proceed to appoint such person to execute its printing, as it should deem most fit and competent to that duty. Mr. M'Coy said, that he also was opposed to the resolution which had been read. He had had some experience on this subject as a member of Congress, and he knew that so long as the public printing of that body had been put out on contract, it had been very badly executed. Constant complaints had arisen, and so greatly had the House of Representatives been dissatisfied, that it had been driven to resort to another mode, and had consequently employed a public printer appointed by law. As to the idea thrown out by his friend on the left (Mr. Doddridge) that the election of such an officer must necessarily excite party feeling, he could not for his part very well imagine why the election of a printer should produce this effect any more than the election of a door-keeper. Mr. M'Coy said, he did not exactly know what was the practice of the State Legislature on the subject of stationery, as it was now many years since he had held a seat there, but he believed it used formerly to be procured by the Clerk. His experience, however, was of long standing, and he did not know what might be the present practice in the matter; but he hoped what stationery they needed might be procured in the ordinary way. Mr. Chapman Johnson said, that as there appeared to be some difference of opinion in relation to the resolution before the House, and its further discussion at this time might delay the full organization of the body, he would move that, for the present, it lie upon the table; and he made that motion accordingly. Mr. Doddridge expressing his assent, the motion was agreed to nem. con. Mr. Johnson then moved that the Convention proceed to elect two door-keepers; which being agreed to, the following persons were put in nomination: by Mr. Nicholas, Littleberry Allen; by Mr. Pleasants, Ellis Puryear; by Mr. Morris, Anselm Baily and Samuel Ford; by Mr. Tyler, John S. Stubblefield and Henry H. Southall; by Mr. Clopton, Pleasant Pomfrey, Ritchie Ayres, William W. Gray, Julius Martin, Christopher S. Roane, and Thomas Underwood. The House having ballotted for the appointment of one of its two door-keepers, no choice was made: after a second ballot, Mr. Nicholas, from the Committee appointed to examine the votes, reported that they stood as follows: For Littleberry Allen, John S. Stubblefield, Henry H. Southall, Pleasant Pomfrey, Ritchie Ayres, William W. Gray, Julius Martin, Christopher S. Roane, Thomas Davis, So Littleberry Allen was declared duly elected. 62 Two ballots were also taken for a second door-keeper, on the ballot of which John S. Stubblefield had 20 votes, and William W. Gray, 55; 42 being the requisite majority, William W. Gray was declared to have been duly elected. Mr. Wilson then offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the Convention will proceed to-morrow, to the election of a Chaplain. In introducing this resolution, Mr. Wilson said, that apart from all higher considerations which belong to the subject, he thought that a decent respect for themselves, as well as for the opinions and feelings of the community, requires of the members the adoption of a resolution of this kind. Mr. Powell said, that he was by no means opposed to the object of the resolution just read: very far from it: it had, on the contrary, his most hearty approbation: he was, however, opposed to the mode in which the object was proposed to be attained. He thought a better course would be, to request the President of the Convention to present to the Clergy officiating statedly in Richmond, an invitation to serve in rotation as Chaplains to this House. This would obviate all imputation of invidious distinctions as implied in the election of a particular individual. Under this impression, Mr. Powell said he would move that the resolution lie for the present upon the table. He accordingly made the motion, and it was agreed to without opposition. On motion of Mr. Johnson, the House then adjourned to meet to-morrow at 12 o'clock. TUESDAY, OCTOBER 6, 1823. The President took the chair at a little after 12 o'clock. Mr. William B. Giles, a Delegate from the First, and Mr. Mennis, a Delegate from the Twentieth Senatorial Districts, appeared and took their seats. Mr. Doddridge of Brooke county, moved to take up the resolution he had yesterday offered on the subject of the public printing, with a view to its withdrawal. Mr. Doddridge said he was induced to take this course by a fear that his resolution, if pressed, might possibly lead to the very evil (the excitement of party spirit) which he had wished to avoid by its presentation. The motion prevailing, the resolution was accordingly withdrawn. Mr. Doddridge then submitted the following resolutions, not, he said, with any view to their being taken up at this time, but hoping that they might be permitted to lie on the table, as, probably, other gentlemen might have prepared resolutions on the same subject, more acceptable to the House. 1. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration the Bill or Declaration of Rights, and to report to this Convention whether, in their opinion, any, and if any, what amendments are necessary therein. 2. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration the Legislative Department of Government as established by the present Constitution, and to report to this Convention, either a substitute for the same, or such amendments thereto, as, in their opinion, are necessary. 3. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration the Executive Department of Government as established by the present Constitution, and to report to this Convention either a substitute for the same, or such amendments thereto, as, in their opinion, are necessary. 4. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration, the Judicial Department of Government established by the present Constitution, and to report to this Convention either a substitute for the same, or such amendments thereto, as, in their opinion, are necessary. 5. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration so much of the Constitution as relates to the Right of Suffrage and qualifications of persons to be elected, and to enquire whether any, and if any, what alterations or amendments are necessary therein, and report the same with their opinions thereon, to this Convention. 6. Resolred, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration the proper basis of representation, and the proper mode of apportioning representation among the people, and to make report thereon to this Convention. 7. Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to take into consideration all such parts of the Constitution as are not referred by the foregoing resolutions, and to report to this Convention either substitutes for such parts or such amendments thereto, as, in their opinion, are necessary. 8. Resolved, That each Committee appointed under the foregoing resolutions, shall consist of members. On motion of Mr. Doddridge, these resolutions were accordingly laid upon the table. Mr. Mercer moved that they be printed; but Mr. M'Coy objected to this order being passed as premature, until a printer should be appointed; and, in order that the House might have such officer, he moved to lay the motion of Mr. Mercer, for the present upon the table, and that the Convention do now proceed to the election of a printer. The motion prevailed: whereupon Mr. M'Coy nominated Mr. Thomas Ritchie as a suitable person, and accompanied the nomination by a few brief remarks in its support. Mr. Clopton then nominated Mr. John H. Pleasants, in whose favour he said a few words. Mr. Garnett added to these nominations the name of Mr. Thomas W. White, to whose competence he briefly bore witness. The House then proceeded to ballot; when Mr. M'Coy from the Committee appointed to examine the ballots, reported that 89 votes had been given, and consequently 45 were necessary to a choice: that Thomas Ritchie had received, John H. Pleasants, Thomas W. White, 54 votes. 28 7 Whereupon, Thomas Ritchie was declared to have been duly elected printer to the Convention. Mr. Wilson now asked permission to withdraw the resolution he had yesterday offered on the subject of appointing a Chaplain; and having obtained it, he offered the following as a substitute, viz Resolved, That the Secretary be directed to wait on the Clergy of this city, and request them by an arrangement between themselves, to open the session of the Convention each morning by prayer; and the question having been put on its adoption, Mr. Powell demanded that it be taken by yeas and nays; but having failed to make this demand in time, the question was taken in the usual mode, and the resolution adopted; 50 members rising in the affirmative. Mr. M'Coy now moved that the series of resolutions previously offered by Mr. Doddridge and now lying on the table, be printed. Mr. Johnson said he had not the least objection to the printing of the resolutions; but he had a proposition which he wished previously to offer to the House, and which, if adopted, might perhaps render that order unnecessary: He would state it for the consideration of gentlemen, and the mover of the order to print might determine whether it would not be best to withdraw that motion for the present. What he wished to ask, was, that a Committee might be appointed to report upon the best course to be pursued in relation to the subjects embraced in the resolutions which it was proposed to print. If such a Committee should be raised, the resolutions would, as of course, be referred to it for consideration, and this would supersede the necessity of printing for the consideration of the House. Mr. J. said he should not at this time present the reasons which had induced him to suggest this course of proceeding, but would try the sense of the Convention upon his resolution, if the pending resolution to print should be withdrawn. Mr. Doddridge expressed his hope that this would be done, as he approved of the object which seemed to be the aim of the gentleman's proposition. Mr. M'Coy said, he would very cheerfully withdraw his motion, having made it under a sense of obligation, in courtesy to do so, as he had caused its postponement when made by another. The motion to print was thereupon withdrawn, and Mr. Johnson offered his resolution in the following form: Resolved, That a Committee of seven be appointed to enquire and report what method will be most expedient in bringing before the House amendments to the Constitution which may be preferred. Mr. J. said that he offered this resolution in conformity to a precedent set in the Convention held in the State of New York, where such a proposition had been presented and received with favour. He was well satisfied that the opinions of the members of this body as to many of the subjects embraced in the series of resolutions on the table, were very variant, and that there must be much difficulty in deciding on the proper course to be adopted. The resolution he had offered presented itself to him as being the best expedient which could be resorted to. Mr. Powell suggested a modification of the resolution by changing the number of the Committee from seven (as originally proposed) to thirteen; to which modification the mover readily assented. Mr. Mercer thereupon suggested that the resolution be farther modified by enlarg ing the number of the Committee, so as to embrace one member from each Senatorial District. This he thought would be a ready and the best mode of gathering the sense of the whole body. The trust committed to the Convention was an important one; the enlargement of the Committee would not be great, and each delegation would then be heard on the arrangement of the course of proceeding. Mr. Johnson said he had no particular partiality to either of the numbers which had been proposed; his main anxiety had been that such a Committee should be raised; and if the enlargement last proposed met the sense of the House, he was content. He therefore adopted the modification suggested by Mr. Mercer, and the resolution was then agreed to, without opposition. The President then rose and addressing the Convention, said that he had to express a wish that the appointment of this and of all subsequent Committees might be made, not by the presiding officer, but by the House itself. Such a course would be much more agreeable to him. He had now been long absent from deliberative assemblies: he had never presided in any. Many of the gentlemen present were, or had been members of the State Legislature, and were much better acquainted with the proper course of doing the business of such a body than he could be expected to be; his health, besides, was delicate, and it would be very gratifying to him if the Convention would consent to relieve him from the charge of making appointments of its Com mittees. Mr. Johnson, though very desirous of lessening as far as practicable the burden imposed on the presiding officer, did not see how the wish just expressed would be complied with, unless by a resolution altering, so far, the rules by which the Convention had resolved to be governed. He would cheerfully offer such a resolution, did he not feel persuaded that the duty of appointing would be performed with more facility as well as greater propriety and more to the satisfaction of the Convention, in the mode at present prescribed. They were disused to such a course as was now suggested in any of the public assemblies in the State, and he could not but desire that the established mode should be adhered to. Mr. Doddridge, taking it for granted that until the resolution now before the House should be disposed of, no farther business would be done, moved an adjournment to the afternoon, in order to give time for the selection of suitable persons to constitute the Committee proposed, but subsequently withdrew the motion." Whereupon Mr. Macrae offered the following resolution: Resolved, That a Committee of members be appointed to consider and report what rules of proceedings of the House of Delegates are applicable as rules of proceedings of this Convention, and what amendments thereof, if any, ought to be made. In introducing the resolution, Mr. Macrae observed that from a defect of Parliamentary experience, he was unacquainted with the rules of the House of Delegates, which had in part been adopted for the government of the Convention; and unless those rules were to undergo some amendments, he should be obliged to move for their being printed in their present form. But he thought it best to afford the opportunity of their being modified, if necessary. The resolution was adopted, and the blank, on motion of Mr. Scott, was filled with the word seren. |