with, unaccompanied by any request or any compulsion to vote for any one name in the lift, that fomething more than infinuation (for the honourable gentleman had that day invented a new fhade of affertion) was too infulting to the House to be tolerated a moment. But would any man imagine that the honourable gentleman or his friends had, in ferious truth, any concern for that impartiality in the conftitution of the Court of Judicature, for which they were now so eager to profefs themselves the advocates, when their conduct on the day of the bollot was confidered? It was in the power of forty of them by staying and doing their duty by balloting, to have put any name upon the lift and had it returned; for, with fuch attention to a fair and impartial election of the Court had the Act been framed, that it was fo worded, that no Minifter, were he fo inclined, or were he so prefuming as to think fo meanly of the members of that House, as the honourable gentleman had chosen to state them, had it in his power to prevent any name from being put upon the lift that forty members chose to ballot for. Inftead, however, of the honourable gentleman and his friends taking this fair and becoming mode of infuring a return of impartial characters, according to their ideas of impartial characters, they had deferted their duty and abondoned the ballot. It was evident, therefore, that the attempt fo made to raise a clamour, was merely an attempt to throw impediments in the way of public bufinefs, and to create alarm in the minds of the people, by ill-founded and frivolous complaints. Of the gentlemen who balloted he could obferve, without dread of contradiction, that their characers were too spotlefs either to need praise or shrink from cenfure.

Mr. Fox faid, that he could not without equal indignation Mr. Fox and surprise observe those very perfons who had, night after night, in nearly all their speeches, when he was in office, and conducting his India Bill through the House, attacked him, and chargedhim with having given himself the nomination of the persons who were to act under the bill, when he rofe up as Secretary of State, and fuggefted their names for the election of the Houfe, at this moment contending that to deliver Treasury lifts, was no interference of the ministry, and that the minds of gentlemen were left as free, as before they faw thofe lifts. When he had the honour to stand up in his place, and nominate Earl Fitzwilliam, Mr. Montague, and the other great and refpectable characters, who were to have been in the commiffion inftituted by his India Bill, was it not again and again faid to him, by the honourable gentleman, and all round him at that time, "You are nominating 66 your own creatures; you talk of the House of Commons P 2

"making

Mr. Drake, junior.

their election; the majority of the Houfe of Commons "always vote with the Minifter on great public points, and "confequently the Minifter who nominates 'within thefe "walls, elects, and not the Houfe of Commons!" This language had been fo often urged, that no man who heard it at the time could have forgotten it, nor would any man, he believed, be hardy enough to deny it. Where was the difference between his ftanding up publicly as a Secretary of State and nominating, taking upon himself at the fame time the refponfibility for fo doing, and the Treafury's nominating, by circulation of lifts, except indeed the difference between open and occult, between public and avowed, fecret and concealed nomination? That the Treafury had compelled gentlemen to vote for any given lift of names, Mr. Fox declared he would not fay; but he would fay, they had canvaffed, and the event fhewed that their canvafs had been fuccessful; for though there had been fifty-feven names returned upon the iffue of the ballot, the whole forty that the canvafling lifts contained, were, he obferved, in the number. Nor was it to be wondered at that the Treasury canvass had proved fucceffful; for, notwithstanding the ridiculous arguments and affertions urged and maintained by the honourable gentleman and the honourable Baronet above him, that the Houfe were not to be influenced by a Minifter, daily experience proved that they were; and that they were, he fhould never be afraid to affert, without meaning to caft a flur upon the Houfe or any part of it. The delivery of written lifts was, indeed, the ordinary mode of canvafs adopted without doors, on various occafions; but, however decent in thofe, it was highly indecent in the recent inftance of the preceding day. The accufation of his having neglected his duty in not balloting, it was fufficient to anfwer, by profeffing himself an avowed enemy to almoft every part of the bill; and therefore he would not (and who, in reafon could) expect it to meet with the least fupport.

Mr. Drake, junior, argued in favour of the fuppofed effential difference between publicly and officially nominating in the manner the right honourable gentleman had done, when Secretary of State, and the delivering out lifts of names anonymously in the manner complained of. He thought there was no want of decorum in that, though he had seen a want of decorum in those who had deferted their duty and avoided the ballot. He faid that he ftood in a peculiar predicament, with regard to the fubject of which he treated, but he would nevertheless contend that thofe very refpectable gentlemen who balloted, had done themselves great honour. The paper in question had not influenced him; he was the fpaniel of no Minifter, the invariably attached adherent of no

party.

party. He would not fetch and carry for either, but might fay of himfelf in the language of a familiar motto, "Nullius in verba." As to the India bill of the right honourable gen'tleman (Mr. Fox) although he met it as a cordial opponent, candour obliged him to allow that, in fome good effects, it might have furpaffed his.

Mr. Martin faid, that when the right honourable gentle- Mr. Martin. man canvaffed for Weftminster, he believed, he thought it neceffary to do fomething more than barely write his name on a piece of paper, and leave it with the party canvaffed. He had expected fomething 'ludicrous when he faw the honourable gentleman rife to make his motion, but was more convinced he had been sporting with the House, when he witneffed the folemn gravity with which the motion had been feconded. Mr. Martin declared that he had received one of the papers containing forty names; that it had not influenced his ballot in the leaft; and that he thought it would be an idle piece of business to have their old fervant brought from the door and placed at the bar of the House.

Mr. Francis anfwered, that he was not aware of having Mr.Francis. difcovered more gravity than usual when he seconded the motion-but be this as it might, the wit of the honourable gentleman would, doubtlefs, opperate upon him as an antidote to all ferioufnefs,

dan.

Mr. Sheridan, cenfuring the miftatements of his argument, Mr. Shericomplained of the right honourable gentleman's having pointed him out as as a perfon apt to treat that Houfe with infult and contempt. Nothing, he added, could be farther 'from his intentions, and as he had not the great abilities, the 'power, the influence of office, nor the other circumftances that right honourable gentleman poffeffed, to recommend him to the good opinion of the Houfe, the right honourable gentleman, he hoped, would not take from him his only poffeffion, a moft fincere refpect for the Houfe and all its members. Mr. Sheridan added, that he differed in one point from his right 'honourable friend near him; he meant to have balloted, though an enemy to the bill, but he had been prevented by accident.

The Attorney General begged leave to remind gentlemen of a The Attor 'fact which they feemed to have either forgotten or overlooked; ney General and this was, that the House of Commons did not, in reality, elect the Court of Judicature; they did not even elect fuch of their own members as were to make a part of it. The act directed them to return forty or more, of whom they chofe by ballot to return; and if they returned more than forty, another election by ballot vefted in the hands of the Judges, determine who the forty fhould be."

Mr. Jolliffe.

Mr. Vanfitcart.

Mr. Sheridan.

Mr. Jolliffe contended, that the best way for the right honourable and learned gentlemen, and those near them, to prove their own arguments, and to rivet conviction upon the House, that the complaint was frivolous and ill founded, would be to call the doorkeeper to the bar, and proceed to his examination.

Mr. Vanfittart remarked, that he trufted the conduct of the House, in respect to the ballot, as well as the very refpetable names returned, would give pefect fatisfaction in India, and convince the British fubjects in that part of the world, as well as the natives, that an impartial Court of Judicature was instituted. ·

At length the question was put, and the Houfe divided, when the numbers were,

Ayes
Noes

The Houfe being refumed,

38

138

Mr. Sheridan expreffed his wifhes, that the motion concerning the procedings, refpecting the propofed plan of fortifying the dock-yards, would not occafion much debate, or even meet with refiftance; but, previous to his making it, he should imagine it would prove right to call gentlemen's attention back to the fituation in which the House stood at that moment, in respect to the fubject. They would please to recollect that the Minifter having given them to understand that, previous to their being called upon to vote, that the 50,000l. granted towards fortifications to be erected for the defence of the dock-yards in 1784, fhould be fo applied, the whole matter fhould be referred to a Board of General Officers, naval as well as military, to inquire into the nature of the plan propofed, the poffibility of doing without it, the neceffity for having it, the wisdom and policy of adopting it, and the expence which it would ultimately incur. He should, alfo, beg leave to remind the House of the turn of the argument of the right honourable gentleman, on the preceding Friday, when he formally announced his expectation, that when the Ordnance eftimates were voted this feffion, the application of the 50,000l. in hand would be defired; at that time the right honourable gentleman had faid, that the House would not now have the bare word of an individual, or of any Minifter to rely on; but the report and unanimous opinion of a Board of the moft refpectable nature ever inftituted, a Board com. pofed of the firft characters, in the naval and military line, now in being. What then (added Mr. Sheridan) was his aftonishment, and what must have been the aftonfhiment of the House, to find an honourable General, a member of that Board, rife in his place and flatly contradict the right hopourable gentleman, by denying that the refult of the opinons

to

of that Board had been fuch as the right honourable gentleman had described, or that those opinions warranted any fuch declaration as he had advanced.

The right honourable gentleman had rifen a second time and put the matter in iffue between him and the honourable General; challenging the judgement of the House, and calling upon them to decide who was right and who wrong in his affertion? Where was the poffibility for the House to judge, without either evidence or means of directing their determination? Affertion ftood againft affertion; and they, altogether uninformed as to the real merits of the fact in iffue, and perfectly in the dark, were defired to decide? This was fo obviously abfurd, that he should have imagined, when the right honourable gentleman put the matter in iffue, he would, of himself, have furnished those who were called upon to give judgement, with the means of forming their opinion as he had not proceeded thus far, he meant. to do it by his motion of that day, but concluding, that a great deal of matter improper to be laid before the House, might be contained in the detail of the Report of the Board of Naval and Military Officers, he had cautiously foreborne to make his motion too extenfive; and had worded it so as to empower Minifters to lay fuch parts only of what papers the motion called for, before the House, as might be placed upon the table with the greatest fafety to the State. If, however, his motion, in its prefent form, was to be found objectionable, and lefs objectionable words could be suggested, he would readily adopt them; and if the papers were furnished, and bore out the right honourable gentleman in his affertion, he would, for one, abandon all idea of oppofing the propofal to fuffer the money to be applied to fortifications. In conclufion, Mr. Sheridan moved for a of the appointment of the Board of Naval and Military Officers, of fuch parts of their inftructions, and of their Report, as His Majefty's discretion might deem proper to be made public with perfect confiftency to the fafety of the State.

copy

Mr. Windham feconded the motion.

Mr. Chancellor Pitt remarked, that he had liftened to the M. Chanobfervations of the honourable gentleman with more pleasure cellor Pitt. and congeniality of fentiment than he expected either to receive or feel; yet, though he joined with him in the main object of his argument, he muft proteft against some particular parts in which he could not think the honourable gentleman perfectly correct in his ftatement. Notwithstanding that he could not fubfcribe to the opinion of the honourable gentleman, that the whole of the inftructions given by His Majefty to the Board of Officers might with fafety

be