the other would the chief commissioner
have a seat and thus the grievance
mainly complained of, that of not having
a person in the House of Cominons to
answer questions relative to the Post-
office department, was liable to be left
without a remedy. Again, he (Mr. Ellis)
certainly conceived that whilst there was
no objection for the Government to have
a political associate in the House of Lords,
he entertained a strong desire that the
number of placemen should not be in-
creased in that House; and, considering
that such proposition came with a bad
grace from the present Ministers, he
should on that account, as well as for the
other. reasons he had stated, express his
hearty disapprobation of the measure.
Bill read a third time and passed.

GROCERS' SPIRIT LICENCES (IRELAND) BILL.] Mr. E. Tennent moved the second reading of the Spirit Licences. Bill. As he understood that the measure was to be opposed, he would very briefly state the reasons which had rendered its introduction expedient. In 1836, Mr. Perrin, who was then Attorney-General for Ireland, brought in a bill to regulate the granting of spirit licences in that country, and in that bill was inserted a clause prohibiting the granting of a retail licence to grocers. The object of this clause was to obviate the temptation to tipling and intemperance which was held out to servants and others by the facilities and secrecy afforded for obtaining spirits at shops where the parties were ostensibly led by other business. It was only in portions of the me

the subject, reflection had confirmed him
in the objections he first entertained
against the measure. The object of the
bill was, to take the affairs out of the
hands of the Postmaster-General and vest
them in those of three commissioners; the
first commissioner to receive a salary of
20007. per annum; the other two, 1,2001.
each, making altogether an expenditure of
4,4001. per annum. The expense of the
present management amounted to 2,5007.
yearly; it was, therefore, proposed to
incur an excess of expense to the country
of 1,900. per annum. Why were three
persons required to superintend this
department? He had heard no sufficient
reason alleged. On the contrary, power
was taken by the bill to give the whole of
its duties not absolutely to three-they
might be conferred merely upon two,
perhaps only upon one; and it might so
happen, if the Lords Commissioners of the
Treasury, should so think fit, that the
administration of the Post Office would
be given to no new commissioner at all,
but kept entirely in their own hands.
Moreover, by the bill, the new commis-
sioners, if appointed, were exclusively to
follow the instructions of the treasury, so
that, possibly, they were causing an en-
larged payment of 1,900l. a-year for the
sole purpose of placing the affairs of the
Post-office in the hands of a nominee of
the Treasury. Did such an enactment
betoken the wisdom of the Government
plan? The hon. Member for Bridport
stated the other night that with respect to
postage the country was on the eve of a
revolution; looking however, to what was
likely to be the nature of the revolution-tropolis and not in the smaller towns of
that it would almost entirely be based upon
increased facilities of communication, de-
manding, certainly, not more, if not less,
intelligence on the part of the head of the
Post-office-he thought that was an argu-
ment for diminishing rather than increasing
the expenditure of the establishment. But
then the right hon. Gentleman the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer had said, that the
main object of the bill was to have the
chief commissioner eligible to a seat in
that House: Why then had he not caused
that to be specially enacted? At present
the Postmaster-General sat in Parliament,
though in the Upper House; yet, by the
measure under consideration, it might be
that, notwithstanding it would still be left
open for a Peer to fill the office of chief
commissioner, neither in one House nor

Ireland this complaint applied, in those places generally the sale of spirits formed but a portion of the business of those who were general dealers, men of character and of capital, forming usually the better class of shopkeepers and persons who had too much respect for themselves to permit their houses to be abused by intemperance of any kind. If these men were now to be forcibly excluded from this trade, it would inevitably fall into hands less safe, and be confined to parties with smaller capital and greater temptations to permit excess. The houses of the grocers were closed at early hours, and always so on the sabbath-day, which would not be the case if the sale of spirits were to be compulsorily thrown into the hands of publi cans of limited means. Its object was

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only to continue the suspension of the act
which had already been suspended for two
years by an act brought in almost simulta-
neously with the suspended act, by the
Chancellor of the Exchequer; for if the
act now came into operation, it would do
a great deal of mischief. He moved the
second reading of the bill.

Mr. Shaw had the greatest objection to
this bill, which if passed would convert all
the grocers into spirit dealers, and thus in-
crease an evil already enormous. He had
exerted himself for several years to check
intemperance in the city of Dublin, but if he
were not assisted by the Government he
could not hope for any success. He hoped
therefore, that the noble Lord opposite
would refuse his assent to this bill.
begged leave to move that it be read a
second time that day six months.

He

Mr. O'Connell said, that the grocers, as a class, were more respectable than the publicans. and were more deserving of the spirit licences. If the object of the House was to repress drunkenness, it should altogether prohibit the sale of spirits. While the act appeared to be rather levelled at putting down grocers than drunkards. He had never in his life heard of any riot occurring in grocers' shops in consequence of their being permitted to hold spirit licences.

Colonel Verner said, with respect to the grocers of that part of the country with which he (Colonel Verner) was acquainted he could bear testimony to the excellence. of their character.

former measures which

Lord Morpeth felt himself in a peculiar position with respect to the bill. In the brought forward it was proposed to insert Government a clause prohibiting the sale of spirits on the premises by grocers, but a deputation of that body having been sent over from Ireland to remonstrate on the point, the however, had been introduced by way of A similar clause rider to the bill, and as he had not divided the House upon it after the deputation of grocers had left London impressed with the opinion that no such clause would be introduced, he felt almost as if he had broken faith with them, and would not therefore attempt to influence any votes upon the question.

clause was abandoned.

The House divided on the second reading, Ayes 43, Noes 15-Majority 28

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Wednesday, August 1, 1838.
MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Bank of Ireland

Act Amendment.-Read a third time:-Prisons (West
Indies).

Petitions presented. By Mr. HUME, from Licensed Vic

tuallers, and Retail Beer Sellers of Salford, against any alteration in the Beer Act; and from the United Associate Presbytery of Dunfermline, against the monopoly of the King's Printer in Scotland.-By Captain ALSAGEE, from Kennington and Camberwell, for a better provision for the Established Church in Canada.-By Mr. P. THOMSON, from Congregations of Wesleyan Methodists of Manchester, against Idolatrous practices in India.-By Mr. SANDERSON, from the Wesleyan Methodists of Colchester, to the same effect.-By Lord W. BENTINCE, from Calcutta, Madras, and Ceylon, in favour of a direct commu nication by steam from the Red Sea to the several presi dencies of India and Ceylon.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Thursday, August 2, 1838.

MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Sardinia Slave
Trade Treaties; Post-Office; Militia Ballot Suspension;
Dublin Police.-Read a third time:-Hackney Carriages
Metropolis.

Petitions presented. By the Earl of CARLISLE, several,

from Wesleyan Methodist Congregations in Halifax and other places in Yorkshire, praying for the suppression of Hindoo Idolatry.-By Lord BROUGHAM, from the Pri soners confined in the Queen's Bench Prison, against the postponement of the operation of the Imprisonment for Debt Bill; from Paisley, against the Prison (Scotland) Bill; from the Maidstone Mechanics' Institution, and from Dingwall, in favour of Mr. Hill's Postage plan; a great number from various places, against Idolatry in India; from Bangor, against the Tithe system in Ireland; from Montrose, against the Parliamentary Franchise; from the same place, for a repeal of the Corn-laws; from London and its vicinity, for the Abolition of Negro Slavery; from Arbroath, against the Renewal of the monopoly of the Queen's Printer in Scotland; from Hudders field, against the Beer Act.

quess of Londonderry regretted, that he MAGISTRACY (IRELAND.)] The MarLordships' consideration the great change was obliged again to bring under their which had recently been made in the Irish magistracy. He was unwillingly obliged to pursue this course, because a noble Marquess (Normanby) had, on a former asserted that he had brought forward occasion, when the subject was introduced, statements in the absence of the lordlieutenant of the county of Down, in the correctness of which the noble Marquess (Downshire) who held that important office did not concur. considering this question, to act upon principle distinctly laid down the other He was willing, in the woolsack, who said, that " night by the noble and learned Lord on the could be removed from the commission of no person the peace without a certain degree of imputation being cast on him; that, there

!

of Mr. Corry appeared to him one of the
greatest hardship and injustice, and by no
means creditable to the Irish Govern-
ment. For thirty-five years had that re-
spected gentleman been in the commission
of the peace, yet he was kept six months
in anxious suspense not knowing whether
he should be continued in the commission
or even be allowed to die without the con-

fore, reasons should be given for such
removal; because every man was entitled
to have justice done him." On this prin-
ciple he was willing to rest. Now, he
found, that on the revision of the magis-
tracy no less than twenty magistrates were
removed in the county of Down-in a
Protestant county, a peaceable county,
where, he would contend, no possible reason
could be adduced for making such an alter-solation of knowing that no charge rested
ation. But while the Irish Government upon his character, The treatment which
got rid of so many magistrates, they intro- Mr. Corry received was so monstrous, that
duced others, who, he supposed, were put he should certainly move that copies of
in the commission because they had the investigation, and the correspondence
adopted the political opinions of the noble which passed between him and the Irish
and learned Lord the Chancellor of Ire. Government, together with the opinions of
land. The individuals thus dismissed the law officers of the Crown, should be
were amongst the most worthy, the most laid upon the table of the House. The
enlightened, and the most intelligent gen-second case was that of the rev. Holt
tlemen of the county. Since he formerly Waring, the clergyman of a respectable
adverted to this subject he found, that out congregation, and a man of large landed
of the twenty magistrates who had been property in the county. The noble and
rejected, no less than eight had been re-learned Lord (Lord Plunkett) had stated
stored. Now, as eight were restored, he upon the occasion of the former discussion
should very much like to know why those upon the subject, that Mr. Waring's name
eight had been dismissed? The noble was not inserted in the new commission
and learned Lord might say, that none because he had left his parish a day or two
were dismissed without reasons being before the 12th of July, instead of re-
assigned, that a careful examination took maining at home to soothe the angry
place in the first instance, and that before feelings which were likely to arise, and to
any step was taken the lord-lieutenant of control the improper proceedings of the
each county was called on to make such Orangemen. It turned out, however, upon
observations as he deemed necessary. inquiry, that the grounds upon which the
Now, if they looked to dates, they would noble and learned Lord stated, that Mr.
find that no such fair consideration, so far Waring was not replaced had no existence
as the lords-lieutenant were concerned, inasmuch as, that rev, Gentleman had
could have taken place. The subject was gone away a long time before, and for a
eight months, indeed, before the Irish far different purpose. He had received a
Government, but it was not until the letter from that rev. Gentleman, in which
month of May last that the lords-lieu- he stated that he was not at home at the
tenant were called on to give their opinion. time, having been detained in Dublin upon
The Irish Government took eight months business. He further stated, that he did
to make up their minds as to what they not reach his residence at Waringstown
meant to do, and they gave to the lords- until the 14th, a few days after when he
lieutenant one month to state their opinion found his peaceful village taken possession
on those proposed dismissals and selec- of by an armed force of military and
tions; for in the month of June last they police although no breach of the peace
made out their new commission. The had been committed and there
lords-lieutenant, therefore, had not a nothing to justify the occupation of the
proper opportunity of considering the sub-place by the military, except that there
ject. Indeed, at the time many of them
were in this country attending their Par-
liamentary duties. There were seven other
gentlemen excluded from the commission,
most respectable men and most excellent
magistrates, and against whom no charge
or ground of complaint had ever been
made. Why, he asked, were not these
seven gentlemen also replaced? The case

was

was an Orange flag upon the Church,
which could not possibly be construed
into a breach of the peace. The third case
to which he wished to draw the attention
of their Lordships was that of the rev. Mr.
Sampson, a clergyman, and a man of
fortune. In his (Lord Londonderry's)
opinion, the dismissal of such men from
the magistracy was taking away the best

1

He

support of the law and of the Government | Mr. Sampson some apology for his con-
in the county, and doing a gross injustice duct. The noble and learned Lord con-
to the individuals themselves. While sidered, however, that he should not be
others upon whom the strongest censure justified in removing Mr. Lindsay from
had been passed by Government itself the magistracy, as the matter had not
were replaced in the commission, Mr. occurred in his magisterial capacity. If
Sampson was excluded. It appeared that the noble and learned Lord was not jus-
in 1834 a memorial was sent to the lord- tified in removing Mr. Lindsay's name
lieutenant, stating complaints against Mr. from the old commission, surely he had
Sampson for the manner in which he col-good grounds for not including him in the
lected his tithes. The lord-lieutenant sent
down an authenticated copy of the memo.
rial, to which was attached the signature of
Mr. Lindsay, a gentleman whose name was
continued in the commission, though that
of Mr. Sampson was excluded. An in-
quiry was directed, and a meeting, con-
sisting of the greater part of the magis-
trates of the county, was held at Banbridge,
for the purpose of investigating the charges
contained in the memorial. The result
was, that all the charges received the
fullest contradiction by the sworn testi-
mony of the churchwardens and the
parishioners. Several witnesses, whose
names were attached to the memorial,
stated, that they had never signed, or
permitted or authorised their names to be
signed to it. It also turned out that many
of the signatures were fictitious, and many
fraudulently obtained. Many persons had
signed it who were not cess-payers at all,
and it contained the names of six persons
who were dead. The magistrates, at the
conclusion of the proceedings, came to a
resolution that they no longer act in con-
cert as magistrates with Mr. Lindsay, in
consequence of his conduct respecting
this transaction. Resolutions were drawn
up and signed, and sent by the magis-
trates to the lord-lieutenant of the county
to be by him transmitted to the lord-lieu-
tenant. A copy was also sent to Mr.
Lindsay. The papers were accordingly
sent to the lord-lieutenant, and by him
referred to the Lord Chancellor for his
decision. Perhaps it might be necessary
to explain to their Lordships how this
letter had come into his possession. He
understood that permission to communi-
cate it to the magistrates had been asked,
and not withheld. It had accordingly got
into circulation throughout the country,
and its contents became generally known.
The noble and learned Lord in this letter
said, that

new. The noble and learned Lord went
on to say, that he was not surprised at
the determination which the magistrates
had come to in refusing to act in concert
with Mr. Lindsay; but he hoped they
would not persist in it, as it would inter-
fere with the public business. He also
expressed his entire conviction of the pro-
priety of Mr. Sampson's conduct.
should make no observations on the effect
which the political principles of Mr. Lind-
say might have had in reference to those
proceedings, but he should say, with re-
spect to Mr. Sampson, that he possessed
more property than any clergyman in the
neighbourhood. Their Lordships might
pretty well judge of the spirit which re-
gulated the dismissal and appointment of
magistrates in Ireland, when he called
their attention to the declaration made by
Mr. O'Connell at a dinner of the friends
of the St. Bridget's Orphan Asylum, where
that gentleman presided. Mr. O'Connell
assured the company then assembled, that
the Irish magistracy must undergo a com-
plete revision, that the matter was in the
hands of the Lord-lieutenant, that it could.
not possibly be in better hands, and that
for the future all partisan magistrates
would be relieved from the labours of the
office of justice of the peace, and be at
liberty to retire into private life. The
conduct of the noble and learned Lord
opposite, as far as it related to the magis-
tracy in Ireland, went most fully to carry
into effect the threat implied in the lan-
guage of the hon. and learned Member
for Dublin. Mr. Chemies, a magistrate,
who had been fifty years in the commis-
sion of the peace, was dismissed. [Lord
Plunkett: He has since been restored.] If
so, it must have been within the last forty-
eight hours. The noble Marquess con-
cluded by moving for copies of all minutes
of proceedings connected with the inves

that Mr. Lindsay's conduct had been October concerning the conduct of MIM most indiscreet and blameable, and that Trevor Corry: copies also of the charges Mr. Lindsay owed it to himself to make preferred against that gentleman by Mr.