gotiations fhould end without producing any new commercial arrangements, the treaty of Utrecht would in that cafe be completely annulled: the confequence therefore would be this, that Great Britain would be obliged to comply with all the requifitions of these two courts, or elfe adopt one fide of this difagreeable alternative either to live without any commercial intercourfe between France and Spain, or to go to war with them, in order to procure advantageous terms of commerce. In either cafe this country muft fuffer; fhe muft either confent to forego the benefits arifing from the treaty of Utrecht, which had always been deemed highly beneficial; or elfe run the risk of losing all thofe bleffings by a new war, which we might expect to derive from the peace. By the delay that had intervened, all thefe difficulties had been removed; the treaty of Utrecht, and all others between France, Spain, and this country, have been unconditionally revived and renewed; fo that let the negociations for new commercial arrangements terminate as they may, England cannot be worfe off than fhe is. If the negociation fhould fucceed, fo much the better; if it should not, then the will find herself juft where the is, in the full enjoyment of the benefits of the treaty of Utrecht. If no other advantage had been derived from the delay, he thought it was well compenfated; and now that the business was concluded, he would not hesitate to fay, that, bound as he knew the public faith to bave been by the preliminary articles, he would not have concluded the definitive treaties on the bafis of them, if the ministers of the other belligerent powers had not thought proper to recede from the letter of them in these several inftances. He hoped that from all he had faid, the house would not think the delay had been useless; and that they would acquit him of inconfiftency in condemning the preliminary articles in the last feffions; and yet calling upon gentlemen to vote for an addrefs that approved of definitive treaties, that were founded upon them. It was proper now to carry into effect, what it might have been better for the nation had never been proposed; but having once been done, there was a neceffity totify it; and whatever the minifters who advised the figning of the preliminary articles might think to the contrary, he was bold to fay, that from a comparison of the loffes and advantages on both fides, between France and England, he was convinced that the minifters of the former power, had, by making peace when they did, rendered their country as great a fervice as had ever been rendered by any ftatefman, to any country, at the end of any war. The right hon. member was furprised that no commercial treaty with America had been figned; but in fact there was no ground for furprife; the late admininiftration had not been blamed, as the hon. member imagined, 'for not having produced a commercial fyftem to parliament, but for having, in the first instance, figned the provifional treaty, without having made any ftipulations in favour of British commerce; and in the next, for not having brought forward fome regulations adapted to the fituation of the moment, which fhould hold till a general fyftem could be formed and adopted. For his part he was free to own, that he might have figned the definitive treaty

with America fooner, if he had thought it neceflary; but having all along looked upon the provisional treaty as definitive and abfolute, when a particular event fhould happen, which has fince taken place, namely, the peace with France, he did not think any ratification neceffary. This was the language he held in his dispatches to our negociators; but as the other powers were of opinion, that they ought not to fign the definitive treaties, until the provifional articles fhould have been previously ratified, he gave way, because he did not think proper to defer the fignature of the definitive treaties with the other powers, until America and England could have fettled the terms of a commercial treaty; and alfo, because he was of opinion, that the negociation might be better carried on in London or Philadelphia than in Paris. The right hon. member wondered that the India bufinefs had been fo long postponed. On this point he was ready to take shame to himself; for the ftate of our affairs in the Eaft had for fome time been fuch, that they would ill brook any delay; the rapid changes of minifters for thefe last two years was the reason why nothing had hitherto been done. No one could fuppofe, that if the adminiftration of the noble lord in the blue ribband had lafted, nothing would have been done relative to India; the enquiry fet on foot by that noble lord, and conducted by the committee of fecrecy, as well as by the felect committee, would, nay muft have ended in fome plan for the better government of India, if his administration had not been fuddenly diffolved. The short administration of the noble marquis left no time for entering upon that business; and even the noble earl, who had been at the head of the late adminiftration, had not time to take any effectual measures to heal the wounds which former governors had given to India. The present administration had come into office in April laft; they could not poffibly have brought in a bill, containing a complete system for the government of India, before the month of May, or perhaps June; and if they had brought it in, it could not have paffed that feflions, unlefs it had been protracted to the prefent moment; and as he found gentlemen very anxious to get into the country in July laft, there was at that time but little reafon to expect that there would have been fuch an attendance as the magnitude of the bufinefs would require. This therefore was a feffions beyond which it would be impoffible to delay it; and he took the opportunity of the full house he now faw, to give notice that he would on Tuesday next bring the bufinefs of India before the houfe. He obferved, that if minifters even wished to keep back the business, it would of itself prefs forward for dif cuffion. The house remembered well the decifion of the court of proprietors during the laft feffions; and the dispatches of the directors, which Mr. fecretary Townshend stopped, and would not fuffer to be fent to India. Something of a fimilar affair had lately happened, and it was now become ablolutely neceffary that the legifLature fhould interfere, and put an end, by a folemn act, to the difficulties which at prefent exilt in the government of the company: at prefent all is anarchy in it, it would be the bufinefs of parliament to reftore order and good govern

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ment. The right hon. member had said, that with respect to the state of the nation, that all ought to be fubmitted to the public eye; and that fuch burdens ought to be cheerfully fubmitted to, as fhould be found neceffary to fupport public credit, and raise such a revenue as would help to extinguish fome part of the national debt. He rejoiced to hear this language from the right hon. member, because he hoped that when the state of the nation fhould be laid before parliament faithfully and fully, the right hon. member would fupport government in laying on the burdens that fhould be found indifpenfably neceffary. It required a strong government to go through with fuch bufinefs; and it was the duty of every man who loved his country, to expose himself for her fake to unmerited reproach, which never fails to be called forth by new taxes, however neceffary. There were two things that parliament ought never to lofe fight of; the laying on fome burdens to raise a revenue or finking fund; and on the other hand the avoiding to overburden the people: it would require the utmoft exertions of their wisdom to draw the juft line between these two points. For his part he was not without hopes, that with care and attention, this country might be made to rife as fuperior in finances to all neighbouring nations, as the pride of Englishmen could defire. There was one fimple method of railing the credit of a nation, which from its very fimplicity might be deemed ridiculous; it was this to reduce expenditure to a level with its income: this was his favourite mode; and by the reductions already made, and to be made, he hoped to be able to effect this defirable end, though from a number of causes, fuch as the expences of bringing back the troops, &c. we fhould feel even in this feffion fome of the burdens of the war. He understood that there were fome abominable doctrines circulating, the tendency of which muft be directly to ruin public credit, by breaking public faith; and therefore he held them in deteftation; thefe doctrines taught that the funds ought to be taxed: but this was a meafure which no honeft man could think of; and which could not poffibly be adopted in fuch a govern ment as ours; where public faith and public credit are fynonimous terms. He concluded by expreffing the happiness he felt in finding that every part of the speech and addrefs was fo unexceptionable in the eyes of both sides of the house, that on the prefent question an unanimous vote would be given.

When the house of commons met again the next day, general Smith obferved, that in confequence of a refolution of the house, an order for recalling fir Elijah Impey from Calcutta had been tranfmitted to India; But he underftood, that fubfequent to the arrival of that order, fir Elijah, instead of obeying it, had actually appeared in his feat on the bench as ufual. This was a matter of very ferious moment; for if he was rightly informed, all the judgments pronounced Lince the notification of recall were null and void, He moved, there fore, that an humble addrefs be prefented to his majesty, defiring that he will be graciously pleased to give directions that copies of al order or orders fent from the fecretary of

ftate's office to India, or to the East India company, for the recall of fir Elijah Impey, be laid before the house. This being agreed to by the house, was accordingly complied with by his majesty.-Between this and the Tuelday, no other business occured, than fome motions refpecting Chriftopher Atkinfon, efq; convicted of perjury in the court of king's bench, which were ordered, preparatory to a fubfequent difcuffion of the fubject. (To be continued.)

Hiftory of the Proceedings and Debates of the House of Commons of Ireland, the Firft Sefion of the Fourth Parliament in the Reign of his prefent Majefty, Tuesday, October 14, 1783. (Continued from Dec. Mag. p. 735.) Saturday, November 15, 1783.

M

R. O'Hara moved for leave to bring in a bill to prevent frivolous and vexatious ar--Leave given.

retts. --

Mr. St. George prefented the accounts of the barrack-board, pursuant to order.

The House refolved itfelf into a committee of ways and means, Mr. Fofter in the chair.

The Attorney General gave notice, that be had no new duties to move at that time; when he had he would particularly point them out. He then moved the old duties, which being agreed to, the house refumed.

Mr. Corry made feveral fevere obfervations on the conduct of fome gentlemen, who, on the preceding night, had, by infifting on the order of the day, in a moft indecent, not to fay, unparliamentary manner, prevented him from making his intended motion for an addrefs to his majesty, a mode of proceeding, which if drawn into precedent, might always be practifed when any motion was intended that was not agreeable to the gentlemen on the other fide of the house; for which reafon he found himself under the neceffity of protesting against it, as a breach of the privilege of free difcuffion and liberty of speech, whh the speaker demanded from the throne at the beginning of the feffion. He gave notice that he fhould on Wednesday next move an addrefs to his majefty, on the prince of Wales having attained his one-and-twentieth year.

Mr. Fofter moved, that a committee of the whole houfe might be appointed to fit on the state of the Portugal trade. That it fhould be taken up in the most public and ample manner; and as there were evidences to be produced, he propofed that the committee fhould meet on Monday at two o'clock.- -Ordered.

17.] The houfe in a committee on the Portugal bufinefs, Mr. Bolton in the chair.

Mr. Skies examined.-The evidence of this gentleman went to prove, that there were a great deal of low priced linens made ufe of in Portugal. The duty laid on in that country is 27 per cent. that the rates of the duties on the goods imported into and exported from Portugal are entered in their book of rates; but that those who collect the duties are at liberty to charge at difcretion the rates as they think proper on their authority. That there is no mention made in their book of rates of Irish goods-whatever

18.] A bill, entitled an act for the relief of his majefty's fubje&s in cafes of frivolous or illegal arrefts, was prefented to the houfe and read the first time, and ordered to be read the fecond time on this day fennight.

Counsellor James Fitzgerald moved for leave to bring in a bill for fetting afide erroneous judg. ments. He faid that this was a bill which would materially fecure the property of the fubject; that it would caufe an intermediate ftate between the judgments of the court and the appeal to the house of lords. That in England the twelve judges were taken before the final appeal. In Ireland the decifions of the court of exchequer were brought into the exchequer chamber before the lord chancellor, the lord chief justice of the court of common pleas, and the lord chief juftice of the king's bench, where cafes are argued with a great expence to the parties. He did not mean to interfere with the jurisdiction of any of the courts; his idea was to have the opinion of twelve judges in cafes of difficulty.

Sir Samuel Bradstreet faid, the fubject deferved confideration; and he therefore feconded the motion. Leave granted.

The right hon. John Fofter, according to or der, reported from the committee of the whole houfe, to whom it was referred to confider of ways and means for railing the fupply granted to his majesty, the refolutions which the commitzee had directed him to report to the house, which he read in his place, and after delivered in at the table, where the fame were read.

And the queftion being thereupon feverally pat, they were agreed to by the houfe to the number of 109.

Ordered, That leave be given to bring in one or more bill or bills, purfuaut to the faid refolutions and the refolutions of the committee of Supply; and that the right honourable John Folter, the right honourable Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Prime Serjeant, Mr. Solicitor Geneneral, George Pontonby, efq; and Mr. Malon do prepare and bring in the fame.

Ordered, That the report be received to-morrow morning.

Mr. Attorney General faid, that when EngBand imparted to this nation an equal enjoyment of her plantation trade, it was on condition that we fhould equalize the duties on all plantation goods imported into Ireland, to the rate of the duty laid upon the fame goods when imported into England. That agreeable to this covenant, the Eoule in the laft feffion had gone into a clofe inveftigation of the fubject, and had turned their attention chiefly to fugar, the principal produce of the Weft India iflands; that as to the Mufcovado fugars, the rates were easily fettled; and ahat after long enquiry it had appeared, that 12s. Id. on refined fugars, was the just equalizing duty between England and Ireland; by which the refiners of both countries might work to equal advantage, That confonant to this opinion, the house tranfmitted to England a bill for equalizing the duties, laying 125. id, on eye

ry hundred of British refined imported here, but that it had been returned altered to 9s. 48. that his opinion was, that 9s. 4d. was not fufficient to protect the refineries of Ireland, and he would now move to increafe that fum to 12. 1d.

Mr. David Latouche faid, that though he did by no means think 125. id, a true equalization, yet as adminiftration had conceded fomething by reftoring the original duty firft agreed to by the houfe, he would for the prefent reft content, in order to try its operation on the refinery, which if against the next feffion should appear an ineffectual duty, he was refolved himself then to move a further one.

Mr. Fitzgibbon-I never was more attentive in my life to any fubject, than I was laft feffion to the fubject now before us, and I do affert, and the evidence will warrant that affertion, that every witness examined by the house, established this fact; that under the former duty of 9. 40. the Irish retiner had a decided fuperiority. I confider the refiners of Ireland as a national ob ject, only so far as they encourage a dire trade between this country and the plantations, otherwise they are no national object at all; and my view was, by the dary impoled, to drive our merchant into a direct trade with the islands of the Weft Indies, for if we are to continue in the old flovenly circuitous way, our refineries, inftead of being an advantage to the trade of this country, will be but of little fervice to it.

Mr. Hartley laid, we should follow the example of England in laying duties, amounting almoft to a prohibition, on foreign manufactures. When we had permifion to trade to the Weft India iflands, there was a duty of gs. 6d. carried for an equalizing duty; this was found to be too fmall, and on the question being re-confidered, it was found that 128. Id. was only adequate to protect the Irish refinery; but on this going to England, the English retiners had it reterred to the lords of trade, who reduced it to 9s. and ad h. and this was adopted. The refiners of Britain could have but two motives for reducing our protection from 12. 1d. to 9s. 4d. either an infidious intention to deftroy our refineries, or 2 monopolizing with to poffels our market. The Irish refiners proved that it would take 3 cwt. of raw to make one cwt. of refined; but this poft tion you over-ruled. However, England herself, not long ago, fhewed you your error; for in laying on additional duties, the adopted the proportion of three to one. He acknowledged that the plantation trade was a gift, and that much gratitude would have been due, was it fairly imparted; but upon receiving this gift, we had been induced to reftrain ourselves from trading with the fugar colonies of every state but Britain

a restraint under which we now feverely fuffered, for had we it now in our power to offer Portugal to receive fugars from Brazil (which could furnish on more advantageous terms than any plantation of Britain) we might settle our trade with the Portuguese on a very refpectable footing.

Mr. Beresford faid, he rofe not to oppose the motion, but to explain the reafons of his former conduct, and the principles on which he had then acted, and from which he had not departed. He faid, that the direct importation had ever been