The Secre without any expence whatever to the public for levying: that law had fince been fufpended by another, which had however given the crown a power to take away the fufpenfion by royal proclamation; fuch a proclamation might be iffued; and he made no doubt but it would produce the defired effect. The Secretary at War objected to this method, as he was of tary at War. opinion that the law in queftion had given rife to a number of jobs, to the great difadvantage of the community. The Mar ham. The Marquis of Graham informed the Houfe, that he inquis of Gra- tended, fhortly, to fubmit to their confideration a plan for eftablishing a militia in Scotland. He trufted that gentlemen now faw the neceffity of fuch an establishment in fo very clear a light, that he hoped his attempt would be crowned with fuccefs. Sir Charles Colonel Sir Charles Turner fupported the plan of the minifters, for defending the country; it was for nothing more than to defend the ftate; and fo far was it from being illegal, or dangerous, that it went only to arm men for that purpose for which they had a right to bear arms in fpite of any law, for the defence of their houfes and property. He approved the plan of raising the men, but he would not have them to be mere foldiers; he had an averfion to a red coat; he wished that the foldier and the citizen fhould be united in the fame perfon, and he told Lord Charlemont fo. Colonel Barré ftrongly urged the neceffity of the plan; for if it fhould not be carried into execution, the enemy, by being mafters of the fea, would at any time have it in their power to ruin this country, by landing and levying contributions. The people fhould be convinced of this, for at present he understood that it was a common expreffion, "if the enemy fhould land we must make peace." But this was a miftake; for in fuch a cafe we could not be mafters of peace, we muft depend upon the enemy for it, who would not grant it perhaps till they had reduced fome of our towns to alhes, and ruined the country by heavy contributions: Then indeed, but not before, would they grant a peace; it was the business therefore of the people not to leave it in the power of the enemy to do us fo much mischief, or to cover us with fo much difgrace. Every heart and hand in the kingdom fhould be now united; no fymptoms of diftrefs fhould appear; and therefore he would conjure his honourable friend. who made the motion, if he would permit him to call him fo (and indeed, in the prefent pofture of affairs, affairs, friends and fellow-citizens ought to be fynonimous terms) he would conjure him to withdraw it, and not throw cold water in the very outfet, on a queftion on which the the falvation of the country depended. Mr. Coke perfifted in making his motion; he had good Mr. Coke, reafons for it; he did not fay that he condemned the meafure wholly; but he thought that if it ought to be generally adopted, nothing could contribute more to that end than to have it fanctified by Parliament. However, he could not help apprehending fomething from arming the people; it had 'been faid that if the cities of London and Weftminfter had been armed, the riots which had disgraced the capital two years ago, would have been prevented; but he would afk, what would have been the confequence if that numerous rabble with blue cockades, which then befieged Parliament, -had been armed? The confequence he believed would have been dreadful indeed. pay Mr. Mans Mr. Mansfield fupported the fame opinion; and after ing the highest compliment to the talents of Mr. Fox, he field. faid that he was furprised to hear him praife, in such high terms, the volunteers of Ireland, who had fubverted the government of their country, and overturned its conftitution. Here he was called to order by The Secretary at War, who gave a flat contradiction to The Secre the affertion of Mr. Mansfield - that the volunteers of Ire- tary at War. land had overturned the conftitution of their country. He then obferved, that the queftion before the Houfe was relative merely to the production of a paper, and related in no manner to the volunteers of Ireland. Mr. Mansfield continued; but after having argued for Mr. Mansfome time generally, he got back again to the Irifh volun- field. teers; and faid, that if this country fhould accede to their demands,-here he was again ftopped and called to order, by Mr. Montagu, who wished that the learned gentleman Mr. Monwould confine himself to the queftion before the House. tagu. Mr. Mansfield went on: he supposed the prefent plan car- Mr. Mansried into execution; and that immediately after that House field. fhould have decided upon fome great conftitutional question, fome of the armed towns fhould declare themfelves much diffatisfied with the decifion of the Houfe, and appeal to the fword, what would be the confequence? It might be more eafily forefeen than prevented, if the plan fhould take place. He was a friend to the freedom of Parliament, and VOL. VI. * X he The Attor he wifhed to fee the Parliament of Ireland as that of England, if the latter was ftill free, or if it could remain free, amidst a people in arms! It had been faid that the volunteers of Ireland had fuppreffed tumults and riots; he believed the fact, but it would have been very ftrange if they had not, the volunteers being, in his opinion, themselves the government of Ireland. Here he was called to order by The Attorney General: who expreffed his surprise that his ney General learned friend could have put the Houfe under the neceffity of calling him to order three different times; his fpeech had a dangerous tendency; it could not be calculated for any good purpose; and if he perfevered, he would again call him to order, and take the fenfe of the House on the fubject. The Lord The Lord Advocate called upon his learned friend to recolAdvocate. lect, that while they had both fupported the measures of the late administration, they had not been in the habit of appealing to bodies of men without those walls, or asking what would be the confequence of fuch and fuch a meafure, if it should happen to displease fome part of the public. He entreated his learned friend to perfevere in the fame line, and not to debate at this moment what might be the fentiments of the people, if they fhould get arms in their hands; it was not politic to fuggeft to them, by fpeeches in that House, ideas which they might otherwife never entertain. Mr. Mansfield. A converfation then took place, in which the Speaker faid he had not called the learned gentleman to order, because he had conceived he had deviated from the queftion before the Houfe, merely in anfwer to other members who had deviated from it before him. Mr. Mansfield felt himself hurt at the Attorney General's expreffion" that his fpeech could not be calculated for any good purpose." He did not know, that in his paft life, any thing could be difcovered, that could juftify an opinion that he would intentionally fay any thing he thought would be injurious to the country; if he had wandered from the queftion, it was after the example of the brighteft genius in that House, (Mr. Fox) who had first appealed to the volunteers of Ireland. All he wanted was to have the legislature of both countries free, and the conftitution ftrongly fenced against the danger arifing from having a people in arms. He did not mean at prefent to oppose the plan; if when produced, it fhould meet his approbation, he would certainly give it; but he thought it was his duty not to suffer fuch a question to pats over, without faying fomething upon it. The General. The Attorney General faid, that he meant to have faid, that Attorney the learned gentleman's fpeech "could anfwer no good end :" he faw his learned friend on the brink of a precipice, and, as he was eager to fave him from falling, fo he had not spoken in the most measured terms. Mr. Mansfield declared himself fully fatisfied with this explanation. Mr. Dempfer expreffed his surprise that the militia fhould Mr. Dempbe non-effective, as it had been defcribed by the Commander fter. in Chief; he thought that it was always complete in point of numbers. He then fpoke to the queftion before the Houfe, and gave the plan his hearty affent; the people voluntarily taking arms was a never-failing fource of defence; in Elizabeth's days they had faved their country at the time of the armada; and no danger whatever befel, or ever threatened the conftitution by arming the people at that period. Mr. Martin faid, that he had several times offered himself Mr. Martin to the Speaker's attention but without fuccefs; that he was well aware that he had neither high rank, great abilities, or mean fervility to any party whatever, to recommend him to the attention of the Houfe; but that he fhould, during life, take the liberty of thinking for himself, and that he trufted that his words and actions would correfpond with his real and difinterested opinions-that no perfon in this country could be more feriously apprehenfive of a large ftanding army than he was, but that he looked upon the meafure now proposed as the greateft poffible fecurity against such an evil and against internal disturbances-that about two years ago a most execrable mob, compofed of unchriftian and ignorant bigots, had affembled in St. George's Fields, that they had afterwards been joined by all the banditti that this great metropolis and its environs could throw together, and that they had done infinite mischief, which he thought would have been entirely prevented had fuch eftablishments as thofe now proposed then exifted; that perhaps he might be ridiculed for what he was going to fay, but that he thought that in a free country every man fhould be a foldier and every man a politician-by being a politician, that he meant that even the loweft of the people fhould be properly interested in the welfare of the ftate; that however fome gentlemen might think proper to treat the lower ranks of their fellow-fubjects, and call them the mob, he thought that many of fuch perfons, though not fo rich or fo learned as thofe called their betters, might be full as honeft, and perhaps as intelligent; that a certain right honourable gen X 2 tlemaa TheSpeaker The Earl of tleman was very fond of treating the lower claffes of men in a contemptuous manner, for which Mr. Martin thought him highly reprehenfible, though his wit and pleasantry might reconcile fuch impropriety and injuftice to the generality of his hearers; he added, that if ever there was a time when we might fafely relax from that ftrict jealousy of a standing army becoming a free people, it fhould be at a time, when we had at the head of our army, a commander in chief, to whom the public were highly indebted for his virtuous conduct, and who had proved himself one of the trueft friends to this country that we had the farther fecurity of having a minifter in the Houfe of Commons who acted upon the true principles of the conftitution, and that he could not but remark, that though that right honourable gentleman had feemed to lay fome blame on himself for his unguarded manner of speaking in that House, it was a point on which he most particularly admired him, as he thought it was much better for a minifter to hold a bold unguarded language, fuch as manifefted a confidence in the public, than feel fufpicious and fearful that an unfair advantage would be taken of every expreffion that might fall from him which was not ftrictly warrantable— he then concluded by affuring the Houfe, that if ever he took up a moment of their time, it did not arife from a foolish and vain prefumption of perfuading others to alter their opinion, but from a defire of declaring his own motives for affenting to, or diffenting from any propofition before them, The Speaker at laft put the question on Mr. Coke's motion, and it was carried without a divifion. The Earl of Surrey then informed the Houfe, that though he had given notice that he would make a motion this day, for taking into confideration the penfions granted by the late adminiftration, after the noble Lord, who was then at the head of it had declared that his administration was no more; he was, nevertheless, under the neceffity of apologifing to the Houfe, as he was as yet unprepared fo: the difcuffion. As to the penfion of 1ocol. granted to Lord Loughborough, he understood that it was not without precedent; this would have fome weight with him; that he did not like to fee Judges look elsewhere than to that House for encrease of saLary. However, as he understood that the late Lord Hardwicke had obtained a grant of 200ol, a year for himself and his fucceffors in the office of Chief Juftice of the King's Bench, he would like to examine into this precedent; and therefore |