the Houfe would pardon. It was, however, not totally foreign to the queftion; for their neglect of the affairs of Ireland was one of the moft material parts of their guilt.

The right honourable gentleman faid, that he trufted in the candour of the Houte for the confidence which they would have in the intentions of his Majefty's minifters towards Ireland; and that they would believe that they meant and wished moft ardently to bring the matter forward in the most speedy manner. He would again ailure them, that it had always been his political fentiments, that it was unjuft and tyrannical to attempt to hold a country in fubjection, and to govern against the will and opinion of the people. It had always been his fentiments with regard to America as well as to Ireland, that they could not, much less ought not to be governed by laws which they rejected as unconftitutional. All just government must confift in the perfect confent, good will and opinion of the people; it was the beft and pureft system of government, where harmony prevailed; and without it, it was not government, but ufurpation. This was always his idea on the fubject; and he maintained it in oppofition to all the theories of men, because it was the only fyftem which in the end was practicable. It was certainly the moft confiftent with true policy, as well as juftice. juftice. To bring about a final fettlement of the difpute between Great Britain and Ireland; to ftate and precifely to declare, not for a moment, but for ever, what was the relative fituation of the two countries with refpect to each other; to take in and conclude all the points of difference, and to eftablifh fuch a fyftem of connec tion, intimacy and relation between them, as fhould be immediately and permanently for the intereft of both, would require much difcuffion, and a confiderable deal of time; for both countries must come to the difcuffion.of the great and important fubje&, that by mutual confent it might be tettled for ages, and not, as had been the conduct of the late minifters, fear up the wound for a moment, without compleating the cure. When thofe minifters agreed to the extenfion of the trade of Ireland, they fhould have ultimately fettled the claims and fixed the fituation. They failed to do this at the proper time, and they ought to answer for it to their country. That measures, however, would be taken for accomplishing this defirable end, he might fafely affure the Houfe. He thought that deceit was always pernicious, and he wished to fpeak with as much opennefs and information as the nature of his office could juftify. He would, therefore, move for the

order

order of the day, as the beft means of poftponing the motion
of the right honourable gentleman. He wifhed for this to
give time to the King's fervants to determine with precifion
on the plan to be offered to both countries; and he had the
utmoft reafon to hope and believe, that the matter would be
finally fettled without any of thofe confequences which the
conduct of the right honourable gentleman in this business
had been calculated to produce. He wifhed, he confeffed,
that the right honourable gentleman would withdraw his mo-
tion, as the best means; and by which an honourable friend
of his, Mr. Crewe, would be able to move for leave to bring
in a bill, which he had introduced fome years ago, for difqua-
lifying Excife and Caftom-houfe officers from voting at elec-
tions. This was a part of the plan which had been formed
when they were out of office, for reforming the constitution
of Parliament, and which they ferioufly meant to undertake
now with the fame zeal and attention as before. Not a day
would be loft until the task of reducing the improper influ-
ence of the Crown, and fettling the reprefentation of the
people upon more equal grounds, was fulfilled. The right
honourable gentleman had faid, that his oppofition to the va-
rious motions that had been made in the Irish houfe of Com-
mons had been fupported by great majorities.
He faid,
that he wished these majorities had been lefs. It was the
greatnefs of thefe majorities and the manner in which they
were conftituted, that had given offence and jealoufy to the
people of Ireland. They, no doubt, defired to fee a free re-
preientation, declaring honeftly their voice in the fenate.
To correct the abufes in influence and reprefentation, would
be the fteady endeavours of his Majefty's minifters. He
concluded with moving for the order of the day; this he
would not have done upon any other account than that the
motion was of such a fort, and came at fuch a time; but he
hoped that the right honourable gentleman would yet with-
draw it.

Mr. Eden rofe to explain what he meant by faying the op- Mr. Eden. pofition to government in Ireland was fuch as no perfon need be fearful of; it was not to infer that they were men of no refpe&t or talents, but that they were men of fuch moderation, that no fear was to be apprehended from them. With retpect to the volunteers taking up arms as amusement, they certainly did fo at firft, and at the fame time with a laudable zeal to protect the country from the danger of an invasion,

Ld.Mahon.

Colonel
Luttrell.

Lord New. haven.

General

which was faid to threaten it; but that amufement had grown into a formidable body of men, who feemed determined to have a total repeal of the declaratory law, without properly weighing whether it would not be in fome measure detrimental to them. He mentioned again that he should leave England to-morrow; and was fearful, that if the motion was not carried into execution, notwithstanding what the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Fox) had faid of the intentions. of government, it would be too late.

Lord Mahon faid, he thought it extremely indecent for the right honourable gentleman, who fpoke laft, to bring in the motion, as he had refused giving his Majefty's minifters the information refpecting Ireland that it was his duty to have done. His Lordfhip read the preamble of the act of the 6th George I.which afferted, that the reafon of its being made was the abufe of power committed by the Houfe of Peers of Ireland. The declaration of the right honourable Secretary (Mr. Fox) had been fuch, he faid, as ought to appear fully fufficient that it was their intention to take up the business with all poffible dispatch.

Colonel Luttrell faid, he hoped that he ftood free from any cenfure in the bufinefs; that the fole reafon of his calling on the right honourable gentleman was from a certainty, that, as he was juft arrived from that kingdom, he could be able to give the Houfe much information on the ftate of affairs; that he was himself at first inclined to second the motion, but as the right honourable fecretary (Mr. Fox) had fo openly declared that councils had already been held, and that every confideration poffible was meant to be given to the business, he thought it would be beft for the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Eden) on his return to Ireland, to ftate fairly to the Houfe, that the prefent miniftry had fully declared their intentions of redrefling the grievances complained of, and to defire they would poftpone their decifion for a short time until they faw what minifters did do on the subject.

Lord Newhaven faid, he by no means would wish to emharrafs government, that he believed the right honourable Secretary on the Treasury Bench was fincere in his declarations, yet he was fearful of an impreflion going over to Ireland, that we had rejected the offer of repealing the act complained of in the motion.

The right honourable General Conway owned himself Conway. furprized that any perfon, who was a fervant of the public (for as fuch he undoubtedly confidered the Irish Secretary)

fhould

should dare to with-hold information from his Majefty's minifters, because they were not a fet of men that were favourable to the wretched fyftem that had occafioned the difpute of the prefent hour. Since the new minifters had come into place, no time had been loft in thinking of the most speedy and effectual means of quieting the troubles that unfortunately raged in Ireland; no lefs than three or four cabinet councils had been held folely on that bufinefs, and the new appointed Lord Lieutenant would be empowered with fuch terms, as he trufted would eftablish a firm and happy union between the two countries, which were fo infeparably connected together by every tie of intereft. It was extremely indecent in the right honourable gentleman who moved the bufinefs, to bring the matter on in the manner he had, without ever hinting the leaft idea to any of his Majefty's minifters of his intention, or knowing whether minifters did not intend themselves to move fomething fimilar to it.

Mr. Eden faid, he found it abfolutely neceffary to declare Mr. Eden the whole of his tranfactions fince he came to England. He arrived in town on Thursday laft, he faid, with a letter of Lord Carlifle's refignation, and was furprized to find that a new Lord Lieutenant had been appointed in his ftead, two days previous to his arrival, by which it would poffibly happen that his Grace the Duke of Portland would be the meffenger of his own appointment; that treatment he thought extremely indecent: it was not ufing Lord Carlisle well, to recall him without any notice, or alledging any fault against him; making no more ceremony in the removal of him (although bufinefs of the kingdom, might materially require his attendance) than they would in the removal of a Chancellor of the Duchy court of Lancafter, or any other finecure place. He likewife found, on his arrival, that the Lord Lieutenancy of the Eaft-Riding of Yorkshire was also taken from his Lordship; he looked on that as an additional infult offered to his Lordship; and he had therefore determined to hold no conference with men that had treated the noble Earl in fuch an unprecedented manner. He had offered to wait on any of the miniftry that wifhed to fee him, but he had undoubtedly declined giving his opinion on any point whatever.

Mr. Secretary Fox faid, with the right honourable gentle- Mr. Secre man's leave, he would read his own letter, which he did, tary Fox. ftating his reafons for not giving them any information on

4

account

Mr. T.Pitt

Mr. Burke.

account of his thinking Lord Carlisle ill treated.* It was extremely curious, he faid, that the right honourable gentleman fhould think Lord Carlifle ill-treated, by a fucceffor being appointed, when he had written home a pofitive and unconditional letter of refignation. He had the honour, he faid, to be well acquainted with Lord Carlisle, and was certain that he was poffeffed of too much fenfe to think himfelf ill-treated in his refignation being accepted. With refpect to the Marquis of Carmarthen being reftored to the Lord Lieutenancy of the Eaft Riding of Yorkshire, it was a meafure fo proper that he fhould have thought himself no ways fit for the truft repofed in him, if he had neglected one moment after he came into office, to reinftate that nobleman in a poft of honour which had been fhamefully taken from him, on account of his giving a free and honeft vote in the Houfe of Peers. The Duke of Portland, who was to fucceed Lord Carlile, would, he trufted, have power to form a ftrong and permanent union, fo effential to the intereft of both kingdoms, and which would, in his opinion, be far better than a hafty, undigefted motion, artfully introduced to feek a little popularity, although the honourable gentleman had difclaimed any fuch idea.

Mr. Martin and Lord George Cavendish, jun. held nearly the fame language.

Mr. T. Pitt could fearcely recover from his aftonishment that any man, a fervant of the public, fhould dare to refufe giving every information in his power, when called upon by his Majefty's minifters; nor was he able to exprefs fufficiently his indignation at finding a member of that Houfe introduce fo flightly a motion of fo much confequence, that upon it might depend the falvation of Great Britain and Ireland,

Mr. Burke adverted to the arduous fituation of the new minifters, when fo many objects prefented themselves to their confideration; the ftate of America, of Ireland, of our finances, &c. The motion before the Houfe went, in fome measure, to tear afunder the connection between England and Ireland; and yet the House was to be hurried into a decifion in a moment upon a queftion of fuch magnitude: he would not give an opinion on the fubject; he would not fay whether the 6th of George I. ought or ought not to be repealed; but he held that nothing could be more mad than to call

*For this letter, vide Remembrancer, Vol. XIII. page 267.