caufed much procraftination, and he thought had ferved no good purpose. Mr. Powys fpoke fome time, and lamented that Mr. Pitt had not been willing to accept of the terms on which he had wifhed him to meet. Mr. Wilberforce replied to Mr. Powys, and was aftonifhed how he could with his Right Hon. friend to truft himself in an Adminiftration upon unequal terms, on the principle that unlefs Mr. Fox's party was the ftronger there could be no unity of principle. Mr. Rolle faid, that he was at the meeting at the St. Alban's, where he had ftood up alone to remonftrate on the impropriety of their conduct; for a letter having come from the Duke of Portland to them, they fent only an extract to Mr. Pitt, because the latter part of the letter was of a nature that did not tend towards a conciliation. He infifted the whole ought to have been communicated, and that this proved the Duke of Portland, and not Mr. Pitt, was the enemy to union. Sir W. Lemon corroborated what Mr. Rolle faid but he had objected to fending the whole letter, because he was extremely earneft for union. Mr. Burke made a fpeech of about two hours, chiefly on the subject of India, faid, he had been thamefully traduced for his conduct but that he gloried in it. Mr. Marham and Mr. Powys faid, Mr. Rolle was the only perfon at the St. Alban's that objected to fuppreffing the latter part of the Duke of Portland's letter. Mr. Fox and Mr. Piit both declared, they had not feen the exceptionable part of the letter, and Mr. Marfham promised, as he had it not then in his pocket, that he would on fome other day read it in the House. Sir Richard Hill made a humorous fpeech. He obferved, that as his Majefty's late anfwer had been fo very unfatisfactary to the honourable Gentleman, who moved the Addrefs, and who he looked upon as the primum mobile in the late convulfions, (all his adherents acting only like the wheels within a wheel, mentioned in Ezekiel's vifion) he should beg leave to fuggeft another anfwer, which he thought, must reach the fummit of the honourable Gentleman's most fanguine wishes, and as he looked upon the Addrefs itself to be wholly compofed by the honourable Gentleman, he fhould fuppofe the answer to be given to him alone. He faid, he did not lay claim to any great poetic talents, yet he should take the liber ty of offering the answer to the Houte in a few hafty rhymes, which, he confeffed, were the production of a fleepless hour a night or two before, when he was meditating on the prefent distracted state of public affairs. His Majefty's most gràcious Answer to the Thy power fupreme to mount my throne; All hail to the Great CARLO KHAN! (c) For the refolutions Against them 191 190 (a) Lord North's own expression in a late Speech. (b) It was proposed by an honourable Member to put the mace under the table, if the Crown got the better in the prefent fruggle. (c) Alluding to the print of Mr. Fox riding upon an Elephant in the chara&er of Carlo Khan. (d) The Man of the People was the name by which Mr. Fox was diftinguished in the days of his popularity. (e) The appellation given by Mr. Sheridan to Mr. Pitt, borrowed from the play of the Alchemift. (f) The expreffion fo much agitated in the late attempts to bring about an union. (g) The Treafury Board. (h) The French name for the blue ribbon (i) The Jew's quarter. It It was then moved that the refolutions be laid before his Majesty, by such of the Members as are of the Privy Council. This question was carried without a divifion and the Houle adjourned till to-mor row. HOUSE of LORD S. Tuesday, March 9. RECEIPT TAX. In a Committee on the Receipt Tax bill Lord Ferrars objected to its paffing, as it was allowed to be more grievous to trade in general than any act that had ever pailed into a law. His Lordthip read part of a letter from Birmingham, wherein he was informed that the manufacturers of that place intended to have petitioned their lordships, had they thought there would have been fufficient time for the purpofe. He mentioned other taxes that appeared to him far more eligible and concluded with withing the bill might not pafs into a law. It paffed without any amendment (See laft months Magazine, p. 217, for an abfiralt of the act.) They had however, no connection with the fubject under difcuffion; and as he had not expected them to be brought forward that day he was not prepared to aniwer them. General Smith faid, he could not conceive there was a more proper time for fpeaking of the government of the army in India than when a bill for regulating the army was before the Committee. He entered into a fecond detail of the facts and hoped to hear from minifters with what regulations they meant to meet the irregularities he had stated. He was replied to by Mr. Jenkinfon and the Chancellor of the Exchequer who infifted that the facts mentioned had no relation to the Mutiny Bill then before the Committee. Sir George Howard the Chairman of the Committee then went through the different claufes of the bill till he came to that refpecting the duration of the act. The Secretary at War moved, that the words" from the 25th day of March 1784, to the 25th day of March, 1785," be inferted. Sir Mathew Ridley faid the majority of the Houte would this day prove to the public how falfe were the reports, that COMMON S. they intended to ftop the fupplics, throw Tuesday, March 9. HOUSE of The order of the day being read for the Houfe to refolve itfelf into a Committee on the Mutiny Bill,' the Speaker left the chair and Sir George Howard took his feat at the table. General Smith, after fome introductory obfervations which could not be heard on account of his hoarfenefs, obferved that his Majefty's minifters were in poffeffion of facts which proved that there was an end of all military difcipline at Madrafs. He recapitulated the particulars refpecting the feizure of General Stuart, and fuperceding the fecond in command without any legal authority, therefore all military government in India was overturned. He cularged on thofe facts, and defired to know what means minifters meant to employ for restoring military difcipline there. out the Mutiny Bill, and plunge the nation into anarchy and confufion: For his part he was perfuaded that the public would, fooner or later, be convinced, that their reprefentatives had been ftruggling for the conftitution. He had embarked in that conteft with the pureft motives; and had concurred with the majority of the House, as long as he had any hopes that the Houfe could fight with effect the battles of the conftitution. But with regret he was now forced to fay, that the House of Commons was defeated; and defeated by those who ought to be its natural fupporters and defenders the people. A mifguided people had been taught to defert their natural guardians, and fly for protection to the crown: he made no doubt but the day would come when they would have caufe to repent that they had lent a hand to degrade their own reprefentatives: their repentance he feared would come too late. For his own part, he felt the degradation of the Commons fo fenfibly; and was fo fully convinced of the infignificancy of a Member in the prefent degraded ftate of the reprefentatives of the people, that he was refolved to withdraw himfelf from his attendance in a Houfe, which had been facrificed by its conftituents, to the prerogative of the crown. Mr. Drake faid, after the banquet to which the Houfe fat down yesterday, I prefume that a collation will be fufficient for the entertainment of this day. I rife not, Sir, to mourn over the expiring honour of this Houfe; but I rife to expreís the joy I feel at fecing its honour revive. (a loud laugh) But, Sir, not to take up much of your time, I will tay, that if the question is for a long mutiny I fhall fay Aye; and I hope the whole Houfe will fay Amen." (another loud laugh. Mr. Powys faid the Minifter, and the House had engaged in a constitutional conteft, in which the Houfe had been conquered by the minifter. He would not. agree however with the Hon. Baronet behind him, that the people had joined the minifter, and affifted him in fubduing the Houfe: An alliance between the people and the crown againft their own reprefentatives, was too unnatural to be lafting; and they must foon be freed from the illufion, that makes them fly from the Houfe of Commons to the crown for protection, if it was true that they did fo. The aniwers that the Minifer and his colleagues advised the King to give thefe addreffes, did not appear to come from perfons who knew that his Majefty held his Crown by a vote of Parliament; if they did, they would not have advifed him to treat with fo little ceremony, a vote of the Houfe of Commons, for the removal of Minifters. The Houfe was indeed conquered; for though a vote of the Commons could once beftow a crown, it could not now procure the difmiflion of a Minifter. As he had been often charged with inconfiftency, he would this day give fome force to that charge, by voting for a long Mutiny Bill, and thereby putting it in the power of Minifters to diffolve the Parliament, a measure which for fome time raft he had been endeavouring to prevent. Such a measure might have been proper at the very out-fet of the prefent adminiftration; but in a little time after, it would have been dangerous. However, he was now willing to let Minifters run their mad career; he was convinced a diffolution would be ruinous; He had once, he faid, given a defcription of the forces that oppofed the prefent adminiftration, he would now, with the leave of the Houfe defcribe thofe that were led by the Right Hon. Gentleman on the treafury bench. The first might be called his body guard, com their His pofed of light young troops, who fhot their little arrows, with amazing dexteri ty, against those who refused to swear alliance to their chief. The fecond might be called the corps of royal volunteers, ftaunch champions for prerogative, ever ready to fall with determined valour upon thofe, who fhould dare to oppofe privilege to prerogative, or arraign the conduct of their chief. The third was a legion com pofed of deferters, attached to leader by no other principle than that of intereft, and who after having deferted to him from that principle, would defert from him on the fame grounds, when they faw their intereft would fuffer, if they should ftand by him. Such were the component parts of the army, that had triumphed over the Houfe of Commons, and conquered the conftitution. Honourable Friend, Mr. Marfham) had been called upon to read a letter from a noble Duke; he had not the letter about him at that time; but he understood he had it this day, and would read it to the Houfe; but before it fhould be read, he begged leave to ftate the balance of the debtor and creditor's fide of the account, between the Right Hon. Gentleman in office and the noble Duke who had written that letter, in the negotiation, in which he had borne a part. There were three things that the Minifter required as preliminaries to an union. One, that a noble Lord fhould not make part of the cabinet. That noble Lord, with a degree of public fpirit, that did him infinite honor, had expreffed a readiness to withdraw his pretenfions to a fhare in Adminiftration, and thus remove this obftacle to union. Secondly, he required that the objectionable parts of the India Bill should be given up. In compliance with this requifition, and from a defire to promote union, the Right Honourable Gentleman had confented to concede to the Minifter the moft exceptionable part of that bill; namely, that part that related to the patronage of India, and leave the reft open to difcufion. Thirdly, he required that the noble Duke fhould confent to an interview with him, upon fair and equal terms. On the other hand, the noble Duke and his friends demanded three things; the first, that the Minifter fhould virtually refign; but this was a conceffion that they refufed to make. It was next asked, that the meffage fent by Lord Sydney, relative to an interview, for forming a new adminiftration, fhould by the Duke and his friends be conftrued to mean a virtual refignation, but this was a con ceffion 3 ceffion that the Minifter would not make. Secondly, the noble Duke defired that he might receive the meffage relative to an interview, from his Majefty in perfon, that he might have the authority of his Majefty's name, to propofe to his friends a plan for an arrangement; but this conceffion alfo the Minifters refused to make. The laft thing required by the noble duke was, that the word equal, in the invitation to meet on fair and equal terms, might be explain ed, but this the Minifters likewife refufed to do. The noble Duke fuggefted an explanation of it in thefe words, "That all poffible attention fhould be paid to terms of fairnefs and equality." But this would not do; for Minifters feemed determined to make no conceffion what ever. Thus ftood the balance between both parties: one ready to make every conceffion, the other none; so that like the reciprocity of the peace, the conceffion was all on one fide. But why fhould a triumphant Minifter make conceffions ? He found his opponents ready to concede every thing for the public good: and when he found fo much pliancy on one fide, he had no occafion to fhew any on his. But furely, this conduct argued an inconfiftency in the Right Hon. Gentleman; for when the peace he made had been cenfured by the Houfe of Commons, he thought it his duty to retire; but now he could ftand in defiance of the very fame House; and that to whofe opinion he once bowed fubmiffive, he was not afraid to trample upon. The Chancellor of the Exchequer faid the hon.Gentleman had amufed himself and the Houfe, by defcribing the different corps that fupported 'Adminiftration. He was certainly much in the right to difplay his talent at defcription, for which he was fo well qualified; for having once defcribed the oppofite army, while he oppofed it, it was now fit that he should defcribe that which he now oppofed, but which he formerly fought with. He was refolved to fhew how able he could appear on either fide of a queftion; and with what powers of eloquence he could, without any vifible caufe oppofe an Adminiftration that he had once fupported.The firft corps, he faid, was compofed of light archers, who threw their little arrows with great dexterity: probably the Hon. Gentleman's armour had not been fo ftrong as to be proof against the darts of thefe archers: for thofe little arrows, which he affected fo much to defpife, feemed to have galled him not a little. As to the prerogative volunteers, which formed a fecond band, he was proud of their fupport, because neither they nor he could be fond of prerogative without being fond of the conftitution, for the prerogative was part of it; nor could he for the fame reafon be an enemy to the Houfe Commons, it was a part of the conftitution, and confequently to him an object of veneration. He could not conceive why the Hon. Gentleman fhould call the other band * deferters," merely because they did not think proper to go the lengths to which others were hurrying the Houle. The Hon. Gentleman had an opportunity of knowing the fecrets of the army, for having ferved on both fides, and having undertaken the talk of negotiating, he was able to do his friends fignal fervice, by the information he might, collect as a fpv, while he enjoyed the privileges and immunities of an Ambassador.The Honourable Gentleman had stated what he called the debtor and creditor's fide of the account, in the negociation for an union. It might perhaps fuit his ideas to state the bufinefs as a matter of barter; but as the only object that he had in the tranfaction was the public good, he con▾ fidered not what men would give; but what would promote the profperity of the country. He would endeavour to thew, in reply, to the honourable Gentleman, that the advantage in point of character, or readinefs to facrifice private opinion, did not lie fo much on the other fide as the honourable Gentleman was defirous to have it thought. Firft with respect to the noble Lord in the blue ribbon, he had faid that he could not ferve with him in the fame cabinet: the noble Lord wishing to remove an obstacle to union, had in a very handsome manner himfelf out of the way. Great praife was unquestionably due to the noble Lord fer his conduct on that occafion; but this was a conceffion which he never called for on the part of the right honourable gentleman over again? him: he never called upon him to give up the noble Lord': nay, he was fure the right honourable Gentleman would have purned at the idea of it. What merit therefore could be founded by the oppofite party, on the voluntary offer of the noble Lord? he never called for that offer; and therefore the part had no right to expect that this voluntary act, would be an inducement to him to make any conceffion on his part. With refpect to the India Bill, it had been faid that the right honourable gentleman had conceded to him the objectionable part, relative to patronage. But offered to take how how could he tell that he could not tell it, until the bill should he produced, and perused. He admitted, indeed, that enough had been faid to open a treaty upon that head; but not to conclude upon it. As to the virtual refignation, he had already spoke so often on the fubject that it was unneceffary to fay any more he would therefore make an obfervation, upon the conftruction, that the opposite party wanted to have put upon the words, "an interview for the formation of a new Administration." They wanted to be at liberty to confider this expreffion to mean a virtual reɓgnation, while minifters fhould be at liberty to confider it as meaning no fuch thing. This appeared to him fo ftrange a way of acting, that he certainly refused to adopt it. The words -fair and equal terms were next to be confidered. When words of fuch plain and Cobrious meaning created, or rather feem-ed to create difficulties, he took it for granted, that those who excepted to them, did not wish to meet upon fuch terms; if therefore they appeared defirous not to meet upon equal terms, would any man think it advifeable that he would confent to go into a cabinet upon unequal terms, which in other words would be, to form a cabinet, carrying in its bofom the feeds of divifion? This was a plain ftate of the cafe; and he trufted it would appear that his conduct in the negotiation, had been free from cenfure. Mr. Powys rofe with great warmth : he faid the minifter had made ufe of the word, "fpy," a very difhonourable appellation to the perfon to whom it was applied; he defired, therefore, in order that he might have an opportunity of defending himself, that the right honourable Gentleman would lay openly to his charge, any thing that he might have done in the courfe of the negotiation, that could be deemed dishonourable, and fuch as would juftify the right honourable Gentleman in making ufe of the word, "spy," in the manner in which he ufed it towards him. Mr. Pitt replied, that he meant not, in the most diftant manner, to charge the honourable Gentleman with having acted difhonourably during the negotiation: all he meant by the word " fpy" was, that the honourable Gentleman having ferved in both armies, knew, as well as a fpy could, all the fecrets of both! Mr. Fox obferved that after what the Right Hon. Gentleman had faid of thofe who went over to the one fide of the Houfe after having once voted with the other, no more perfons would put themselves in the power of the Right Hon. Gentleman to charge them with inconfiftency; and fhould this be the cafe he was fure the Right Hon. Gentleman would have no reafon to rejoice that his arguments fhould have been perfuafive.In the beginning of the conteft the Hon. Gentleman did not think the honor of the House in the smalleft degree involved; but he foon found, when affairs had taken a certain turn, that the very existence of a Houfe of Commons, or at leaft its confequence in the conftitution was in queftion; and then he ftood up an advocate for the Houfe, and for the conftitution, even against a Minifter for whom he had a predilection. But the Hon. Gentleman feemed to triumph at having got fomething that approached near to a majority, to fuppert him; however, if he would weigh well all circumftances, he would find but little caufe to triumph. For, in fact, who were his fupporters? Some indeed who might be called a chofen band, and who might be reckoned among his particular friends.—But he fhould recollect, that a much greater num ber fupported him merely because he was a Minifter: That this great number was compofed of perfons who never voted with him before; and who were never yet known to vote against a Minifter. He begged leave to make a few observations on the fubject of the conferences relative to an union. He admitted that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not called upon him to give up his noble friend in the blue ribbon; he knew that he would not, and could not give him up.-The_noble Lord was at the head of a party refpectable from its numbers, more refpectable after it was purged by defertions to the Minifter.- -Such a man could not be given up.-But the noble Lord's own difinterefted uefs and magnanimity, had prompted him to make a facrifice, which his friends would not have recommended to him, but for which he deserved the moft fincere thanks of his country. The noble Lord, however, great as was his confequence from the number of his friends, had confented to retire from pub lic bufinefs: did he not then fet an exami ple to the Right Hon. Gentleman? and did not the example of his noble friend call upon him to make fome conceffion? None, however, would he make. The expreffion "equal terms," was delufive; and the Committee would be able to fee that it was not an expreffion that held out a profpect of conciliation; but feemed to indicate |