that might derive to their party from procraftination, and at the fame time to deprecate the natural imputation of delay. With refpect to a fhort mutiny bill, he would not at this moment enter into that queftion, which was not then regularly before the House; but he would remark, that if a fhort bill fhould be fent up to the Lords, it would not appear very furprifing to him, if the Lords fhould alter it fo far as to bring it back to the standard of former mutiny bills. If then such an alteration fhould be made by the Lords, and the bill fo altered fhould be returned to the Commons, what would be the confequence, if the latter, adhering to their order, and the practice of their proceedings, fhould reject fuch a bill? If fuch an event was to take place long before the expiration of the prefent mutiny act, the confequences might not be dangerous; but at prefent there was not day a to be loft, But he would not for a moment fuppofe that the Houfe would pass a fhort mutiny bill; he did not believe they would; nay he would almoft venture to go fo far as to fay they would not. He was for going into the bill this day, because there was not a moment to be loft.- -If the adjournment moved by the Right Hon. Member should take place, he was fure that the confideration of the mutiny bill could not poffibly come on till Tuefday; and as the confideration of the account from the India-houfe ftood for that day, poffibly it might not come on till Wednefday. Surely then the Houfe did not with to run the bill to a day, and to risk the confequences that muft neceffarily follow, if the bill fhould by any misfortune happen to mifcarry. In order therefore to avert thofe confequences, as far as in him lay, he would oppofe the motion for adjourning the committee on that bill.

Lord North did not believe there was a willing delay of public bufinefs on either fide of the Houfe, and enumerated inftances in which both parties might be faid to have occafioned delays, but observed that it would not be an eafy matter to convict either party of being the caufe of thefe delays. With refpect to the delay of the great meafures of finance, and other important business, it refted entirely with the right hon. gentleman, because he had not yet fo much as attempted to bring forward any part of it. But this delay he would hot impute to him as matter of blame; because standing in a fituation, the like of which no former minifter had ever experienced, standing with a majority not for

him, but against him, it was not at all furprising that he fhould not be very forward to bring on public bufinets, when he knew that he had not weight enough in the Houfe to carry through the business that he might have to propofe. For thefe. reafons he would excufe both fides of the House of intentional delay; the one becaufe they had not delayed business; the other because they knew they were not in a fituation to do any thing, except one which it was their duty, and in their power to do, to retire from fituations which they knew they could not fill with advantage to the public. With respect to the motion then before the Houfe, hs was not at all furprifed that it was oppofed by the Right Hon. Gentleman; for when he could not break the majority that was against him, it was natural enough that he fhould endeavour to degrade it, by making it adopt a manner of acting, totally irreconcileable with confiftency. The Honfe had already laid it down twice as a rule, not to proceed to any other bufinefs of importance, until the King's anfwer, which fo materially affected the privileges of the House, had been previously taken into confideration. He obferved that it had been faid that the King might by his prerogative keep the army together even after the mutiny act had expired: did those who maintained fuch a doctrine recollect the very first claufe in every mutiny act. "Whereas a ftanding army in time of peace with"out confent of parliament is contrary "to law," Could prerogative exercife a power which had been declared by above one hundred acts of parliament to be iflegal? Could a foldier's right as a citizen to be tried by his peers be taken away by any authority fhort of a politive act of parliament? or had minifters any right or power to iffue any fum voted by parliament, until the act appropriating that fum fhould have paffed? He reprobated the idea of the Lords altering the mutiny bill and thereby occafioning a delay, and declared his ferious determination that it should come on on Tuesday next, at least he would vote for its being brought forward on that day.

Mr. Powys wifhed the motion might be carried for the fake of confiftency, and in order to confider the King's anfwer maturely. That anfwer, he faid, was an anfwer indeed! He hoped therefore, they might be allowed a short paufe to fhed a tear over the expiring dignity of the Houfe of Commons. As to the mutiny bill he was fure no man had an inten

tion

tion to refufe to pafs it; for what length of time would be the queftion.

Mr. Brook Watfon reprobated delay in ftrong terms, as in every point of view dangerous, and therefore he fhould vote against the motion, the sole objeĉt of which appeared to him to be delay.

Lord Surrey wished to be informed what was the reafon of the Hellian troops being kept here.

The Secretary at War faid the only rea fön was that the Wefer was entirely frozen, but that tranfports were in readinefs and they would put to fea as foon as news fhould arrive that the froft was broke up in that river. He complained that the queftion was uncandid,and tended to excite jealoufy among the people.

Mr. Rigby exprefed his furprife that a gentleman in office thould complain, that a member of parliament, when the Mutiny Bill is under difcuffion afks a queftion relative to the difpofition of a large number of foreign troops at perfent in the kingdom, and inftead of a refpectful anfwer, which he had a right to look for, he is abuted for daring to do his duty, and enquire into a matter, refpecting which, in the best of times, that Houfe had been more than ordinarily jealous. Had Mr. Onflow been in the Chair, Mr. Rigby told the Speaker, he would have marked with indignation a piece of conduct fo indecent, and every way fo improper. Having very properly and very conftitutionally exprefled his difapprobation of the Anfwer of the Secretary at War, Mr. Rigby took notice of the extraordinary doctrine that had been that day laid down, that the King could keep up the army without a Mutiny Bill. He faid, every foldier would be told he was at liberty the moment the prefent Mutiny Bill expired, provided another Mutiny Bill had not by that time paffed, and he defired to know how the army, in that cafe, would be held together? What conftable would billet them? What innkeeper would receive their horfes into his ftables, or the men into his houfe? What addreffing Mayors would order their quarters? Would the Grocers Conpany take them into their hall? The pofition was not only the most uncontitutional, but the inofi, ridiculous and impracticable that ever was held. He treated the idea of the Lords, (whom fome fool or other had, he understood, called the Hereditary Reprefentatives of the People) altering the Mutiny Bill with great difdain. The mutiny Bill laid a heavy tax

upon the fubject, and if the Lords made the fmalleft alteration in it, that House, he faid, ought to throw it out, let the confequeuce be what it might, or their independence and importance were gone for ever. He laughed at the affertion lately made by a Crown Lawyer, "that it was the bounden daty of that Houfe on its allegiance to receive fuch Minifters as the King thould appoint." If that were the cafe, the Crown might fay, fic vola, fit jubeo, and put the weakest and wickedeft men on the Treafury Bench to be found in the kingdom. Every body knew, there were thofe, whom perhaps it would be more agreeable for the Crown to have on the Treafury Bench, than the Right Honourable, Gentleman and thofe now near him, but the perfons, he alluded to, dared not face the day and become oftenfible. That Houfe he faid, was competent to judge for itfelf, and might withhold its confidence from any fet of Minifters it difliked. When he faid this, he declared he meant no difrefpect to the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of his Majefty's Miniftry; he had the highoft refpect for him, but his manner of coming in as a Minister was a fufficient ground for that Houfe to withhold their confidence from him. Mr. Rigby concluded a warm but moft able fpeech with faying, that he fhould certainly vote for a short Mutiny Bill.

Lord Mulgrave replied to Mr. Rigby. He reafoned ftrenuously against the late proceedings, which had funk the character of the Houle. That House, he said, would ever appear degraded and humiliated when it claimed privileges which did not belong to it, or carried thofe privileges it did poffefs to an unconstitutional extreme. He handled Mr. Powys with great feverity. The gentleman reminded him of a member of that Houte, in the time immediately antecedent to the Protectorate, a perfon named Sir Benjamin Wright who the hiftorians of thofe times defcribed as an able, honest, and refpectable man, (but fond of feeing his name in print, and of pathing for a great speaker) whom a party made use of, on account of his independence, and on account of his character, as their motion maker, confcious that what came though him would be better received by the Houle, than if the real leaders of the party had made the proprofitions themselves. At that time as at this, the Houfe was led on ftep by step, till it was brought to that point, to which a little before they could

fcarcely

fcarcely ever have thought it poffible for them to have come, for who in the beginning of the proceedings of the long Parliament, would have believed that they would end in creating Oliver Cromwell Lord Protector? His Lordship applied this hiftorical remark to the proceedings of the Houfe at prefent; he faid, a Right Honourable Gentleman had cajoled them into voting one refolution, and with that about their necks he had led them on by degrees, till he had got too far for any them to think of retreating.

of

Mr. Marfham defended Mr. Powys. He knew he acted from the dictates of his own judgment and upon principles of defire to ferve his country; and that neither he nor his honourable Friend were to be perfuaded or intimidated from doing what they conceived to be right. He was convinced that the conftitution was in danger, and whenever that fhould appear to be the cafe, he should think it his duty to use his beft endeavours, at every rifk to fave it from the deftruction that threatened. With regard to the queftion he meant to vote for it; but if the Right Honourable Gentleman would bring for ward fuch measures as were neceffary for the fupport of publick credit, he would give him every affiftance in his power; even where the meafure did not meet his wishes, he would not vote against it, fo that the Right Honourable Gentlman's weakness thould become his ftrength.

Sir P. J. Clarke and General Conway faid a few words in fupport of the motion. Commodore Johnstone spoke against it as did alfo Sir William Dolben.

At half after eight the Houfe divided. For adjourning the mutiny bill Against it

171

162

HOUSE of COMMON S. Monday, March 8.

The Houfe went into a Committee on Mr. Nesbitt's Divorce bill, Mr. Mafterman in the chair. The council having gone through the evidence, withdrew,

Lord Surrey obferved that an unprejudiced man might well have fufpected that the hufband had really connived at the irregularities of the wife; for it appeared that Mrs. Nefbit always lay in Mr. Nefbit's bed, except when the gentleman who was the partner of her guilt happened to pafs the night in the fame house with them (See the evidence, February Magazine, p. 144. He was, however, fatisfied that there was no collufion and that Mr. Nefbit was entitled to a divorce. He

found by the evidence, that his lady had brought him 10,000 l. in money, and thadow of juftice that the thould be de500 l. a year in land. He could fee no prived of the cftate that originally belonged to her, and yet the bill made for therefore moved to leave out the words her a provifion of only 2001. a year. He an annuity of 2001. and all the rest of the claufe for the purpose of inferting the landed eftate of 500l. a year," to which he words, " giving back to Mrs. Nesbitt her thought her entitled.

The motion not being feconded, dropped of courfe, and the bill being gone through was ordered to be reported to the House.

GALLERY CLEARED OF STRANGERS'

The Houfe being refumed.

Majority

9

HOUSE of LORD S.

Monday, March 8.

The Receipt Tax Bill was read a fecond time and committed.

Lord Bathurst's motion refpecting the public accounts was, on account of the indifpofition of the Lord Chancellor ad journed to Monday next.

Several private bills were read. At half past four the Houfe adjourned till to

morrow.

Vol. VI. April 1784.

in Sir James's ftating that feveal perfons had got into the gallery by improper means; and therefore, as room could not be found for a Member's friend, he would move to enforce the ftanding order against the admiffion of any ftranger: the Speaker inftantly ordered the ftrangers to withdraw; and thus, near two hundred perfons, who had fat there from eleven in the morning till half after three, were obliged to retire.

The order of the day being read for taking his Majefty's anfwer into confideration.

Mr. Fox refa and faid, he prefumed it རྣ! would

would not be expected he should go over all the grounds on which he had been acting in the prefent conteft; the Houfe well knew how he had been turned out of office, merely because he had been fupported by a large majority in that Houfe, in measures of the most difficult and important nature; his India bill had been thrown out in the Houfe of Lords by means of corruption, of the most dangerous and groffeft kind. He complained heavily of the hardship of his fituation. He argued that it was not good policy in any country to fubje& minifters to the power of the crown; if their ftudy was to pleafe the crown, then minifters it feemed were fafe; but if they dared to do their duty, their own ruin was the certain confequence. It well became the Houfe of Commons, therefore, not to fuffer men to be difgraced and forfaken who had been ftrenuous in their duty.

As for the King's anfwer, he could not have thought it poffible for any Minister to put into the mouth of Majefty fuch contradictions and fuch fcandalous duplicity; there were paffages in it big with danger to the freedon of this conftitution he could not have believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman had fo detefted this conftitution, he could not have believed that he would have dared so far to infult the House of Commons as again to ask for the reafons of their refolutions. Every beggar, in every arbitrary country, had a right to petition his King, ftating the reafons of his petition: and this, forfooth, was the whole mighty privilege, that by that fpeech the King was advifed to allow the British Houfe of Commons-the Houfe of Commons had often addreffed, without ftating their reafons. He then defired the Clerk to read the Addrefs in the cafe of the American war, which defired his Majefty to put an end to an offenfive war on that Continent; as the withdrawing of the troops from thence would give us advantage over the French in other quarters, and would tend to conciliate the Ameri

cans.

Thus, he faid, the Houfe there gave only a general reafon, in the fame manner as in their late Addrefs. The Houfe, in the one inftance, had defired the King to withdraw his troops, for the fake of making peace with America: in the prefent cafe, they defire the King to difmifs his Minifters, for the fake of making an united and extended Adminiftration.It was true, that in the inftance of the American War, the King returned an anfwer declaring, indeed, his

approbation of the end they fought, but not explicitly promifing his concurrence in the means, on which the House inftantly came to a refolution, that he should be an enemy to his country, who fhould advife his Majefty to profecute an offenfive war in America. Upon exactly fimilar ground the Houfe of Commons, in the prefent inftance ought to be admitted as the best judges both of the means and of the end and he thould be perfectly warranted by this precedent to move a refolution, that he was an enemy to his country, who should advife his Majefty to continue his prefent adminiftration; by the earnest advice of fome friends, however he did not mean to propofe fuch a refolution--what he should move would not be an Address, but an humble Representation to his Majefty, for, to that no anfier was customary, and he withed for no answer because nothing was fo unfeemly, nothing could difgrace us more in the eyes of Europe and the world, than to fee the King of England and his Parliament wrangling about words and engaged in a controverfy of fach a kind. He faid he did not intend to stop the fupplies; that the country was ruined, and completely undone, was most clear; that public credit could not ftand; that our foreign concerns muft go to ruin, he believed every man must now fee: thofe however were refponfible who had brought the country into this ftate of diffraction; for his part, fo far from stopping the fupplies, he fhould prefs minifters to bring forward the public bufinefs; he would bring on his own amended India bill, but if it was loft in the other Houfe, minifters were bound to come forward with fome new plan for India; and indeed every part of our public affairs cried aloud for their inftant attention. He then defended Mr. Powys and Mr. Martham, from the charges of inconfiftency; he faid they could not abett minifters, for whom they profeffed even a predilection, in their refiftance to the Houfe of Commons. Some there were who had agreed with him in the outfet of the difpute, but who (as appear ed by the decrease of the majorities) had gone over to the fide of Adminiftration.How to defend the confiftency of fuch men was indeed difficult; and it was fome comfort to find, that on examining the reafons of fuch deferters, it appeared that thofe who had come over to him were men every way refpectable; while thofe who had left him, on the other hand, (as was naturally to be expected) were men of whofe company and of whofe fociety no

man