prived of their vote? They must look at these questions from their own personal standpoint. The poorer classes had no chance to save money. Mrs SALE (Chorlton) objected to the strictures passed on "want of backbone" in the paper. Backbone" was a great gift-(laughter) --and if those who did not possess it did their best, it was all that could be expected of them. (Hear, hear.) Mr CROSFIELD (Liverpool) said the great difficulty was to form a scheme of pension or relief which applied to all parts of the country, and the varying forms of destitution. (Hear, hear.) There was the difficulty, for instance, at Liverpool, of casual labour, with its infrequent work at high wages. Not long ago a few persons thought that the street scavengers should be paid more wages, and when the advance was conceded, the old men who were, so to speak, on the doorstep of the Workhouse, had to compete with young men who thought it worth their while to take the work at the improved wage, with the result that the old men would be driven into the Workhouse sooner than they would otherwise have been. In many callings as soon as a man got to the age of fifty there was very little chance of his obtaining employment. If they in Lancashire and Cheshire felt so much difficulty in laying down a rule that should apply to the two counties, they could understand how much more difficult it was to formulate a scheme for the whole country. (Hear, hear.) Professor FLUX (Owens College, Manchester) said that Mr Rooke had rightly laid stress on soine very important points in connection with the question. The agitation had reached a point at which it was rather difficult to offer any opposition to the movement for the improvement of the condition of the aged poor. He was inclined to regard Mr Rooke's suggestions as practicable, and they appeared to him to be a slight modification, and in some sense an improvement, of the proposals of the last Select Committee. He hoped that that report had been studied by every one connected with Poor Law administration. He (the speaker) happened recently to have made inquiries into a matter which had considerable influence with the Select Committee, namely, the experience of Denmark in a scheme closely corresponding with the scheme that Mr Rooke had indicated. The scheme had been in work about eight years. When he was in Copenhagen lately he made inquiries into it. The scheme was not called "pension" there, but a term meaning "supported old age." It was at first feared that the "pensions" would destroy the inclinations of the people for thrift, but there had been a steady improvement in the savings bank returns. Copenhagen was the only large centre of population they had in Denmark, having about 350,000 people. Curious to relate, the number of people over sixty there and in Manchester was practically the same. Of the 6,000 fully 4,000 were women. It emphasised the fact that the stress of life falls hardest on women in old age, who would profit most by any old age scheme. (Hear, hear.) At Copenhagen Poor Law administration had for more than twenty-five years been based on a very careful plan. The city was cut up into twelve districts, each with relieving officer and assistant, and the control of the poor was very strict there, recipients of relief not being allowed to sell or pawn any of their property. There was a steady and remarkable decrease on the list of people receiving out-relief, due perhaps to the desire to qualify for the pension and avoid the Workhouse during the ten years previous to their application for the pension. (Hear, hear.) Mr HOLLAND (Northwich) said the pension scheme would be no use at all in rural districts, as land was going out of cultivation owing to the migration of the labourers to the towns. This was a ratepayers' question as well as a matter of sentiment. He said, seeing the number of men who had once enjoyed good positions and then came on the rates, let them in the days of their prosperity contribute towards a provision for old age. (Hear, hear.) Mr WOOD (Nantwich) said the matter of old age pensions had been forced upon the notice of Guardians by the agitation in recent years. The Friendly Societies were very divided in opinion about the desirability of a national pension scheme. But the opinion of those societies must not be the determining factor in the matter, inasmuch as some of the societies afforded no opportunity for making provision for old age, others were beyond the means of poor men, and many persons were physically defective and incapable of joining such societies. He trusted that some practicable scheme would ultimately be evolved, and thus save the respectable poor from having to enter the Workhouse. (Hear, hear.) Mr ROOKE said he was prepared to adopt Mr Rhodes' suggestion that the recipients of the pension should not retain a vote. He had had to prepare the paper not only for that Conference, but for the public generally, and must not be taken to task for every word with which a Poor Law Guardian might disagree. Some objected to one word and some to another, but he attached no importance to any of the words--it was the scheme that he wished them to criticise. (Hear, hear.) The PRESIDENT said the paper was very important, and they were all deeply indebted to Mr Rooke. (Cheers.) A number of objections had been made to the term pension. In his Union the people called out-relief a 'pension." It was a rather misleading word, because it opened the door more widely than for the relief of the necessitous poor. (Hear, hear.) Any pension scheme would have to be surrounded by the most careful conditions to safeguard the money of the ratepayers. He suggested that instead of pension they should call it "old age special relief." (Hear, hear.) Mr Rooke, in the paper at any rate, proposed not to disfranchise the recipients of the pensions. It would be a great mistake to set up a new class who would receive relief and yet retain their vote. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe that the question of disfranchisement ever entered the head of a man seeking relief. (Hear, hear.) It would be necessary to disfranchise the recipient of relief, at any rate, as regarded the local elections. With regard to the weavers mentioned by Mr Whittaker, was it not a fact that they received very high wages during the years in which they were in full work? If so, they should not have provision made out of the rates. (Hear, hear.) The Friendly Societies had been the greatest friends of the Guardians and the country, and he did not think one word too much could be said in favour of the great work they had done. (Hear, hear.) They very seldom found a member of a Friendly Society applying for relief. If each Board of Guardians would draw up a scheme for their own locality and send it to the Local Government Board, excellent progress might be made. He hoped that before they met again they would see daylight on the question. (Cheers.) He regretted that it had been made too much a political question. As Guardians they knew no politics, at least he hoped so. (Hear, hear.) The PRESIDENT then proposed a vote of thanks to the Lord Mayor of Manchester for the use of the Town Hall and his kindness to the members of the Conference. This was carried unanimously. The PRESIDENT proposed a vote of thanks to Mr Hagger, the worthy Hon. Secretary of the Conference, to whom, he said, the success of the Conference was largely due. (Cheers.) He hoped Mr Hagger would be spared for many years to take part in the work. (Cheers.) This was carried with acclamation. Mr WHITTAKER proposed a vote of thanks to the President, who would, he hoped, be spared far into the next century to preside at their meetings. (Cheers.) Alderman M'DOUGALL seconding, said it was a very great distinction and advantage to have their Right Hon. President taking a keen interest in the Conference. (Cheers.) The vote of thanks having been accorded with great enthusiasm, The PRESIDENT assured the Conference that there was no work which he undertook with greater pleasure, and he would be glad to give his services in the future if he were spared to do so. (Cheers.) He considered the Conference to have been a most successful one, and hoped that the Lancashire and Cheshire North-Western Conference would long continue in the interests of all concerned with the Poor Law administration. He felt it to be a great honour to have been their President for a quarter of a century. He wished them prosperity and success in their several Unions. (Cheers.) The meeting then terminated. In the afternoon visits were paid by parties of the delegates to the Styal Cottage Homes, the Crumpsall Infirmary, and other places of special interest. |